Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

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Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:51 pm

I'd love to know how this guy did this:

Part 2 if you're interested · http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NItbjzIoDds

I have this map, though don't know the name offhand. Think it's MH-LiandriInvasion. The point is the monsters on the map are supposed to be various classes of Skaarj...

...but if you watch the Monsters count, the players are gunning down Male/Female Commandos and the Monsters count is going down as they get gunned down.

AND THEY ARE NOT PLAYERBOTS!

Is their an existing class of monster that looks like the Male/Female Commandos??

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:49 am

Yes and No.

1) Map is quality, you will wait maybe an age until to see such work now days in MH.

2) Such reworked monsters belongs to XidiaMPack and/or SevenB. Here we have problems of course.
a) If you wanna experiment more, play the map and check how is acting their animations hanging in "TakeHit" sometimes (is a code glitch) - ? they might overload some stack generating ammo for other weapon than holded ? Maybe;
b) Some of them having "old weapons" after a small period have chances to remain without ammo (due to MH replacements) - not those having UT weapons or aliases with the same ammo.

People in the past suspected Skaarj to have problems with weapons in MH servers generally because of missing ammo. This thing is not true, "weapon-holder" Skaarj doesn't have ammo troubles, he can trigger weapon without to lose ammo charge firing 3 months or until server is crashing. There is a very simple way to test things local but nobody bothered with detailed tests presuming bullshits. Based on wrong presumptions, these pawns are meant to generate ammo for their weapon, stacking actors (an experienced coder might understand what I mean). If I check code in detail for sure I'll find other bugs. The question: What for ? They are already done and need a complete rework, fixing with mutators being difficult.
These weapon-holders are configurable, normally are meant to be placed in maps directly. Using weapons often meet in MH (OLxxxx) and UT stock stuff, should not be a big problem, else mods replacing weaponry might cause the same troubles as for Skaarj making them useless.

Anyway these weapons problems occured since "smarts" from Japan developed Regeneration timers (a need in now days) incorect done creating a heavy load and altering other timers (as Dead.Timer.PlayerCanSeeMe, A.I. glitches, different unexpected things, etc.) even some dude told me something about "stolen UTJ codes" - in fact is just UTJ trash, I'm not sorry for what I said because is the whole truth. This is a bit off-topic but is somehow affecting these pawns. Right now I'm camping thinking at reworking this regen stuff in a different way.

I wanted such pawns for a DM (I coded last 2 days a DM reworked for monsters presence). When I studied their code I quited ideea developing Skaarj subclasses. I was thinking at Yoshis but they are messed in animations and also might be too powerfull for normal 100 health.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:40 pm

I've noticed Skaarj Military never running out of ammo before, which I always thought was kind of cool.

So, the SevenB.u is responsible for making any model into a monster?

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:08 am

EvilGrins wrote:So, the SevenB.u is responsible for making any model into a monster?
Is not making, it contains these classes.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by EvilGrins » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:51 pm

As I learned the hard way...
http://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?p=55487#p55487
...it wasn't that.

They're in the XidiaMPack.u actually. I tried editing out oldskool from it but haven't had any luck so far.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:44 am

As I said, XidiaMPack and SevenB has some ... Males and Females. Exist maps with SevenB, others with XidiaMPack.

Now, as you noticed they might use olweapons.oldpistol by default. Why ? Probably to work somehow due to replacement flaws. This ideea is bad, yep, read again, bad. I screwed some old weapons and in my humile experience related to weaponry I did them better without dummy classes a la UIWeapons. I simply done them as Tournament stuff accelerating their code. Walking through codes I found different useless coments debating Weapon descriptions but not fixing codes. Being a forum with cussing forbidden I won't quote here what I found because both of those guys were a bit lost in space. Weapon description from my side is totaly useless since they have major bugs:
- Dispersion aka OldPistol won't be really amped up correctly - has flaws On-Line as well;
Pickup querry is not fixed people might collect 100 PowerUp-s even the level of power is only 4;
- ASMD aka OLASMD- other flaws: not amped creating a querry bug, decals missing (saying not works ON-Line) - somebody was too busy to post bullshits and did not checked ShockRifle which fire with decals and WORKS proved;
- FlakCannon aka OLFlakCannon - removing flakammo from some Coop mod was wrong ideea and might still be. If weapon is stucked at 0 ammo bug come from weapon code itself not ammo. Ammo isn't guilty. I used UT_FlakCannon code and I have 0 troubles;
- Automag aka OLAutomag - I'm very amazed by that pickup querry code and Awsome animation of akimbo - is the mostly ruined not extremely fixed.
- RazorJack - not major bugs just maybe others (missing some animations from original mesh) - and a little big bug related to BOT. Why they started a war against Bot ? I don't know. When Bot firing alternate fire with RazorJack projectile is simply hanging in air with 0 speed at fire location being totaly useless - LOL Epic, this dumbness is amazing me, I note in my notebook how to do useless things. I checked the code and indeed is about a dead pawn who fired and is killed while projectile is flying, and... Bot - disabling tick in projectile - also reworked weapon works in feigndeath mode;
- Minigun aka OLMinigun - as a note, anybody can still fire this weapon while feigningdeath - thanks for NOT fixing any dumb code, I'm not fixing this one because I don't care about it so much;
- GesBiorifle aka OLGEsBioRifle - why was important to ruin alternate fire developing a high speed firing ? - A better code is in UT_Biorifle.
- And so on ?

As you can see, last time in MH I have other replacements and I won't ever use OL(crappywep) because Shrimp copied these into another UIWeapons fixing ... NOTHING. So if these pawns are using OL... series they are reset with other old alias when I play such map VIA my Mod. For future I need to solve their ammo flaw but is not an emergency, my last subject being Bot brain and teleportation in DM games.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by EvilGrins » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:17 pm

Say, Nelly... would you be interested in editing XidiaMPack, obviously renamed, to remove all the oldskool bits? So I, and possibly others, who don't like the newer oldskool can use it?

Please!

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:50 pm

What can I say, my experiance is pretty limited in doing different graphic parts. Last MH worked by me using decals still calls OldSkool. Not for pawns or weaponry, the mostly for decals which are done enough well - except MonsterShadow which was better fixed in some mod and I reworked it again for different DrawScales to be adjusted dynamically (client is under attack not server, being a client side).

Good... mods derivated using pawns which were linked with OldSkool and olweapons making people to believe about OldSkool as being a kind of God but it is not, weren't the best ideea. Remaking Xidia might be welcomed by people (I noticed this when I ran a home server receiving even an e-mail about this beautifull subject). Problem, maps already done calling old class won't call new class if is renamed. Giving the same name will return old subject of mismatches especially for clowns using a 20 GB UT99 game. Very few players know subject and aren't uncaching files.

My ideea might be for other package (any name) containing some Weapon-Holders but... malformed Skaarjs because their code is much better. They need only some meshes from Botpack, maybe voices separate (for some reasons default sounds attached to monsters aren't audible ON-Line, or depends on interact slot coded). For new maps type 2013 my proposal is to have some MHNewPack with certain classes used by people with some functions fixed. Also maybe is time for a monster hybrid a kind of Bot - not very roamer but with capability to switch weapons (if holds more than one - a harder job).

For coding (any coder interested):
- concept WeaponType called by pawn should be limited only at PostBeginPlay. If anybody have doubts about ammo, do a simple call to Weapon...ammo and let Skaarj code to work as supposed. This is my 1) main target for fix - I'm very convinced here;
- Pawn need a detailed revision because that animation looks like a crap when pawn is taking hit and firing from a stupid position - a timer I think is incorect computed or a stacking is causing troubles. Anyway people noticed their issues and did not used them intensive;
- use local test using "cheatview aCustomPawn" followed by "behindview 0" before to post bullshits related to ammo and/or weapon story;
- an aditional MindReader might be used as well to check what's going on directly.
Optional things:
- They are strafing too much for their 0 skill - slow down the crap;
- I think they don't need fear as long as they hold a weapon - why to run ? - They cannot get health so where they need to go ?
- Ah, I forgot something - Initially pawn might have bIsPlayer False. Before to spawn weapon bIsPlayer set to True and forced false immediately later.... Or simply try a different deal with a custom Touching function without that stupid bIsPlayer and without LOG to nowhere our cool dude.

In end, I think I'll try to recode some package like this, to test it more time in private and maybe I'll see more people interested about this subject. At this moment UT subject related to pawns seems very few debated, I don't know why people are retreating so easy satisfied with unfinished mods - is enough work for fixing pawns. In week-end (if I won't play too much) I'll try to see what I can do related to other kind of Weapon-Holder (maybe I'll rename it) as root for a few pawns using UT stuff (even old maybe).
Last edited by Nelsona on Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:11 am

Wait a second, another things just came to my head.

These pawns supposed armed ... I simply don't know why they need weapon in PostBeginPlay (just messing ON-LINE invisible weapon throwed). If nobody is joining to party why we need to spawn actors (ruined in end) ? I think could be more simple. Monster is waiting ... sleep well. Monster is patrolling - spawn weapon when reached at first patrolpoint (maybe). Monster is guarding ... spawn weapon if encounter an enemy - no need weapon if is nobody there. Monster is attacking ... check in this master state if has weapon, if not spawn that "WeaponType". Why was necesary PostBeginPlay ? Because I'm stupid, I don't know the answer and also I don't know why this was the base rule for Weapon-Holders generally.

Protection for pawns to not mess up in 0 skill games ? Just my two cents suggestions:
- if map has Some crappy powerful wep - Insta and so on - pawn will say bye and will leave game insulting admin without to do event to open doors or others - done, just break map and get lost;
- if map has over powered weps and BlockMonsters - ruin them, ruin triggers to mess up map, spawn blockers for players, and leave game saying Bye - polite not like Bot ;
- if map has over powered stuff and BlockMonsters and poor pathing - say bye and randomly set score to -100000000 for players, perform saving stats (if exists), ruin settings, and crash server - I think we can cap stupid mapping for these pawns.
When coders don't want their pawns stoled to develop crappy stuff just setup mad things and let pawns to ruin game "as they want". In this way you won't see "Good Stuff" posted anywhere.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:26 am

I checked Xidia... Meh, that's a whole package with all things. I guess is better to have other package because that one is complex and is done for other purpose than MH. For MH is better to have only pawns not all things from there.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:02 pm

Return to "humans"
Good things:
- I can slap a weapon-holder meant to spawn weapon later (when encounter enemy);
- He looks indeed like a Bot, can be cute or scarry.
- These pawns can be throwed in a separate class for mapping purpose.

Medim problem:
- for the moment is just groaning like Skaarj (being a small kid of skaarj) - need to reconfigure voices - maybe implementing telling a story or a joke during state waiting;
- need small adjustments related to animations timings, I modified animations names but I have to check timers in detail.

Some nasty Troubles:
- Pawn added in map need to be skinned manually - is just a green manure by default, probably ignoring my suggested defaults or something is lost in initialization - mesh from BotPack has no skin being called a function to assign skin as for Bot - the same for Xidia pawns;
- function for assigning skin returns errors, it calls a Bot static function and things aren't going so well;
- I need to compose a function meant to bring some skin in case of 0 skin.

A good point is to add them in map directly skinning them with editor.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:40 pm

So, Xidia has complex editing issues, for any that dare try, and it turns out SevenB, relatively speaking, isn't much better.

Ported from ut99.org:
Image

I tried opening SevenB up in my UnrealEd but this kept happening:
Image

I think, while a fun idea for created map edits overall, I've just about given up on the feasibility of these 2.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Nelsona » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:46 am

Wooow, now I'm closer to fully understand what is an Editing soup and consequences. Some dudes are experts in producing troubles for others.
I think sometimes that people are using different editors "because this one cannot do what I want" and this leads nowhere.

As I remember Kelly said about some crashes when was involved SevenB. Maybe author will return to fix and mind his job some day.

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Re: Replacing monsters with Male/Female Commandos in MH

Post by Hermskii » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:06 pm

Don't count on it.
~Peace~

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