Customized tweaking

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Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:38 am

As we know (or not yet) majority of MH maps are... TRASH. I'm talking about settings which might head to broken games or spamming servers with their funky setup. By coding a general fix you might solve 1 map and messing up another 2 ones. Not every map has the same problems and the same fix.
What is doable here ? A sort of patching like some COOP mods are doing but... simple and without doing the same bunches of checks in the same map and each running map and without having dependent packages to download each time so to speak useless load for all maps.
Structure basically uses 1 main core mutator, and... desired modules loadable on demand, a single time and patching map ONCE without decreasing performance but doing the right setup.
Things are improved by XCGE where "dynamicallyloadobject" is being corrected and it allows to main core mutator to test existence of a patching U file without crashing game.
We have some benefits:
- game stable by fixing bad actors - or making them to die in an early stage before doing damage;
- spawning decorations in maps with bad spots;
- adding paths - read well - we can attach paths in empty zones for A.I. (any A.I.);
- movers which have never been open even was something in mind with them but none triggering;
- "special maps" where authors doing a mess are not giving permissions for fixing map regarding to their "engine knowledge" and visible bugs mooing around and which are fixable.
Cons:
U files involved needs some knowledge (mapping, coding). The fact is if a map is released bad, for sure not even next year mapper will not fix it because he/she DOESN'T know what is wrong there, about fixing we cannot even think about.

The result:
I'm not convinced about this method to become popular or such, and neither having a wide range of usage through admins but... I've only talking about what I was doing last time for some maps which I was loving in the past but crashing games a lot due to their "fascinating setup" which I will slap down making them error free - yeah, this is doable nowadays. As a random sample, I know a few maps with PrecipitationGenerator which is a CANCER for UE1, I can put it down without having another package for player permanently downloadable. In future I'm planing a replacement (if Kelly will have that new thing stable).

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:31 pm

Time Bump.
I have something operational, probably I will not insist for calling testers for first thought before a public release. If anyone is interested to check this mutator working with XC_Engine I'm here, just send me a PM.

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:21 pm

In conclusion, things are playable properly using news, in 2017 at end of year I simply can breath with no concern, yay UT'99 with MonsterHunt can be properly set...
I think fixing mission can be ended soon and... perhaps this is the solution.
Actually dual mode patching has some benefits. Serve-Side can be updated anytime, Client needs have advantages of new visual stuff and decorations which are not part of replication, are StandAlone without being Net consumers, they can cover poor spots at once with bringing missing items.
The load is minimal, modules are loaded separate with less memory exhausted for let's say 200 maps, each of them loads modules only if it's running. So far I have 5 pieces loading paths and decorations and setting up stuff properly.
In 2018 probably I'll be more busy to recover things causing pain creating modules for borked levels, and then, it will be time for party.

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Hermskii » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:26 pm

What part does Kelly have in this? Is he doing something new with MH by himself or with you? I need to call him soon and chat it up and find out what all he is up to these days in UT.

I'm still down and out. My server is just sitting there. I'm on standby to get new service at the house. I do still plan to get my stuff back online at some point.
~Peace~

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:51 am

Hermskii wrote:What part does Kelly have in this?
None so far ?
This stuff means a few U files that are loaded by MY mutator called NavAdder described at UT99.org around XC_Engine things. It is addressing to a single purpose: loading patching packages if are found available and adding them as player packages if are needed automated not all downloads for hours, so to speak it do supports updates for almost EACH MAP for this UT (if I do especially MH patching this is my weakness) - this is my idea and my project toward newer Engine Extension XCGE aka XC_GameEngine. These things doesn't run without XCGE because... new options are fired up - like creating paths in RUN-TIME which means adding Bot support and powerful map tweaking - As sample, I'm currently testing module for map MH-(du)-Dormant, map has default no Bot support as in those old dumb DU specific rules, has a cheating route (which will be used by Bot too - we are cheating all or nobody). Bots so far were completing a half of map using another MH controller done for XCGE as well. So I'm speaking about my OWN and unique stuff in here which will make me finally relaxed but a bit busy for writing those patching files needed. 2018 will be a bit quiet if I can predict well...

Such a mutator was not that possible without XCGE because DynamicLoadObject function with option "bMightFail" will crash any default server thanks to Sweney and Co and drawing paths in Level by default is doable only by Editor - but now we can do these in game. From now one I'm on a better ground. If nobody cares about XCGE is their loss. If those mappers will never learn to make a good map, it's their problem. They had time to learn 17 years, now things are fixed and they will never know what was wrong - and I got tired of explaining them what to do.

I have full patched and Bot support for:
MH-BirdBrainedResearch
MH-GXech
MH-{msclc}_WarOfMonsters
Some plans around that borked multiplied CryptRunners - that one needs Editor because it's really crapped.
MH-(du)-Dormant - working
MH-Krogaar - yes, PrecipitationGenerators turning map into spam trash is now happily tweaked and corrected.
The work keeps going...

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:19 pm

Eh, for Lift was a bit of additional work but from now on I have it in template, I'm not sure if it hurts transporting HuntNode into "portable" version. Lift tweaking and pathing was successful - game has been ended with Bots around. Te he, in 2018 I'll say good bye to empty stupid cubes...

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Kelly » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:39 am

Hermskii wrote:What part does Kelly have in this? Is he doing something new with MH by himself or with you?

Not trying to hijack Nels, I'm just going to answer quickly then get out of your thread. I hope you don't mind brother.

I'm currently running an Unreal, UT, and UT2004 server from my house but it's just for fun. I'm not working on anything but I was considering a back-to-basics monsterhunt version than took MH back to it's roots. No reload, stock weapons, no health drip, normal monsters, etc. You'd get one life to finish the map and each map would be timed. Fastest times were the server "winners" and I was even debating not having scoring.

There just isn't a lot of interest in that. Players don't want to give up level 5 NW3 nukes and monsters with a million health. MH is in ruins now and there's no going back. And yes, I'm deeply aware this is very much my fault too. I helped create this mess with MH2.

I did a ton of custom work in my Unreal server but there are just so few players it's a waste of time so I've kinda quit there too. For a while I was deep into PUBG, playing with Sp00ney's group but got tired of the poor netcode and so I dropped out. Now I'm just drifting around and doing some uncredited assist coding on several ongoing projects that may or may not see release by the people doing them.

That all being said I'm on vacation this week and looking for something to do. Anyone need anything?

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:24 pm

I had a few free days but now it looks like I will end year working. Some of these geniuses customers were doing nothing all summer and suddenly they have noticed some needs in last hour...
In a bit of free time I'll setup patch files for evil maps - condition is to have at least geometry properly done to not mess with fake walls added. Else other maps are really crapped in all points, no deal here or there is needed 234834 lines of tweaks for recovering a bit of game - I think I have a solution even for those with bad paths crashing - completely removing A.I. is not my way of doing but at least player can play that thing.
Right now I was interested to test myself if I can run with XC tweaks that map without PlayerStart actors WierdOrWonderful - I simply cannot see it nowhere - or it was hidden, renamed, or fixed, heck knows...
Around MH play type, I always sat away from "great mods" - I'm not trying to offend coders/developers - I just want MH vibe and not lags, frames lost, no skill game, and all that stuff. Those NW servers are not a go for me ever, I'm not hating NW I simply disagree MH-NW soup, I don't even have those files in server and not even in backups - for me it's like it doesn't exist.
I'd rather work to inject BPAK in gaming but... at monstrosity side not at player... just for fun. Winner is the player with less number of deaths not with more points for nothing special.

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:39 am

Oh, the other good thing around a patch file dedicated for some map on purpose, it can do even major changes to movers/doors which might be nasty. I'm not speaking about InitialState and those common things, I can deal even with keyframes, making it to be opened in a different spot and also adjusting placement - for maps having them in Line with brush-wall and developing flickering textures when mover is moving through wall. It is required a double deal in order to gain changes in client I mean in the copy of map running in client for being in a proper timing with the server. By screwing only server, mover will replicate functionality but has a very slow reaction toward moving parameters and it doesn't look fascinating. By using this method I think I can even get rid of bad-ass movers sending them into zone 0 (the void) for preventing buggers to annoy player. I have to mention that for doors configured to block old routes a la "MH-Crescendo" for no reason, we can remove even a bad keyframe by setting it different making mover to go in another spot where it will not disturb the action.
It looks like 2018 will be entertaining...

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:09 pm

In order to prevent confusions about how do such a tweak works I'll try to explain simple stuff.
Due to general server tweaking which I have done, monster in my server doesn't attack door because it can see me. Actually it won't move a finger. The problem solved do seems useless in such types of miss-aligned things.
Editor view:
Smp_0.PNG

Game view in Original:
Smp_1.PNG
That Krall has noticed me and I think I can even kill it before opening the door.

After loading and launching all tweaking modules we can have this - ON-LINE (to mention):
Smp_2.PNG

I did not went to a perfect aligned thing because there somehow is still a door that has to be figured at re-spawn especially... I'm thinking to align this thing and to attach a deco-texture having the meaning of a door... and here I have added some "lamps" else lightning there looks pointless as long as those lights are coming from nowhere in original Level.
Why patching these cubes ? Because aligned cubes don't have any major BSP issues, map is pretty solid and by adjusting stuff inside it might be used even with Bots - yes, other server-side (authoritative module) will drop a path-net linked with the rest of original paths (some of them are removed because are causing bad links through doors making bot to act like an idiot). So to speak we have Bots and Monsters aggressive even in these default empty cubes where design can still be adjusted by spawning decorations ONLY IN CLIENT, leaving server at a minimal load - server doesn't care about decorations anyway, that's player stuff.
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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:49 am

All right, I think it's time to setup some link for any testers. Location with Up-To-Date stuff is here:
http://www.hofgamingclan.com/forums/vie ... f=29&t=161
Summary:
- NavAdder is called the mutator running ONLY in XC_Engine games/servers with at least v20 - original post/location is at UT99.org - finally having the deserved own section in forum - lol admins and UT addiction - but better later than never. Why XC_Engine ? Because we cannot add paths in a plain UT game in maps during run-time thanks to Sweney and Co. but now we can because of HIGOR. So by only using newer natives from XC_Engine we can deploy a path net in run-time (while game is running).
- packages named and caped at 12 Characters used by certain map-name. What's the deal here ? When server is loaded with NavAdder, anytime we can update server by dropping packages in System without even to stop server. Player is playing a map A, we are dropping patching updates for another map B, when map B is being voted and loaded patches are automatically active and client side is mapped as package automatically. I'm not sure if can be done more simple, doing an update without editing files and without to stop server...
So far there are done patch updates for various old maps - I'm interested to put them into gaming ground because they are more suitable for UE1 rather than latest "maps" which some geniuses are doing aka "new blood". Those old thinks were good excepting some rammed stuff and settings and is not a good idea to setup 2000 routines inside a mutator making it to be 100 MB or more. Each map is debated in particular with a minimal load, we won't load more than it's required for this task. The cons: it do needs some quantity of work around but final stuff will be pretty perfect in big parts.

Facts:
NavAdder with these patches is running at HOF XC_MonsterHunt server as a demo at this moment.
So far we have maps patched with Bot Support added/corrected and a couple of tweaks:
MH-BirdBrainedResearch, MH-GXech, MH-Antalius, MH-(du)-Dormant, MH-CrytalMine3, MH-Krogaar, MH-Detour, MH-brutality. They have badges injected to confirm the presence of tweaking packages.

I'm currently doing a revision at CrystalMine3 for first Lift area where randomly a Bot might go trapped unable to deal with lift - so far tweaking is done but I wanna do more tests. Here Bots are not ending map due to DevPath limitations but they head the game until last area - in the most of cases remaining 0 monsters.

So far XC_Engine might not be an easy deal for everyone but it worth reading docs are probing it for whoever was asking for UT fixes which they never came from factory (and probably will never come).

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Terraniux » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:38 pm

Since I do not understand a single word of this, can you please explain it to me, or to us like I am a six year old?


Interesting stuff!

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:33 am

First step is using XC_Engine according to Higor descriptions where probably neither others did not bother to read/understand - that guy still uses GameSpy... in his servers and he removed default channel for downloading files - lol admins.

HOF servers are using NavAdder. Basically is about how to use/load a mutator for UT which is not a Rocket Science.
Demo mode on
Load and play map MH-Detour with Bots Off-Line. It's not a very interesting game, right ? Right.
Now vote MH-Detour at HOF XC_MonsterHunt server.
See the difference - if this doesn't seem clear, I don't have another way for explaining this very simple mutator, I think is the most simple thing from all UT history that's why no one can deal with it, I cannot believe that this solution about using multiple files (plugins more exactly nearby mutator loaded is such a hard to get task). I know it's incredible how simple can be - mutator is loaded and it becomes more smart by only copying some files around with no future editing and nothing else changed in configuration. Schwartz is updating HOF server by just sending package files (said new plugins components) into System and that's all - NavAdder is attacking map if a package for it is being found, else it does nothing.
Demo Mode off
A plugin ? It's like an application doing multiple tasks if has FILES dropped in it's sandbox. It can work without files but if files are added features are expanded. Usually encoding programs are using plugins for working with codecs. We have NavAdder doing nothing itself, but if we are dropping more packages (like plugin files) in System it becomes more smart being able to patch and make Bot Pathing in more maps according to packages/plugins loaded.

Not to mention that long explanations are not helpful. Using mutator in fore mentioned maps is the direct evidence how do it works. Stuff which I do has the best explanations when is touched/used else unfriendly tech terms/grammar/forum space, a faq which people are not reading are useless.

Also I have posted two images at begining - Without mutator and With mutator - if you did not see any difference then excuse me but this very simple toy is too complex and I don't have other solution, once again it's entirely my concept UNDONE before nowhere in this UT - I did not see yet such thing and being new probably people cannot believe that it works in such a simple way, by capturing updates dynamically without editing nothing.

EDIT: The only similar thing but way different is Botz mutator using some unreadable format in it's own pathing files types and some U things loaded + complex setup needing Higor's assistance. I went for a more simple solution writing everything in mutator from byte 0 and using small assets for packages loaded from Gunloc mutator sampled/shared by Higor and which I had to complete with things for my needs. U packages can be read by anyone and then patches operated become visible for everyone by decompiling files using Editor.

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Sun May 06, 2018 12:02 pm

Bumping time:
Perhaps is good for random people to see what's going on last time around MonsterHunt and patching stage.
A topic is here:
https://hofgamingclan.com/forums/viewto ... p=325#p325
and then as a reminder for those not very interested about links I can describe what was done generally in bad or less bad maps:
* If a map has PathNodes but mapper did not link them (map not build or such) a bad-ass module can capture them and sending them to NavigationPointList using another compiling method. You read well, from blind nodes having no data for A.I. we can develop a bit of movement;
* If a map has way too many spots developing and insane amount of paths and processing take a lot of Engine Power we can get rid of ALL nasty things except PlayerStart, Teleporters, SpawnPoints and all those borks which Editor is producing when mapper doesn't care about his work;
* If a map has a sudden light coming from a wall without a single bit of logic, we can tweak lightning problem by adding some lamp having even a nice corona not like those from maps making you to turn them off and bugging all visibility.
* If a map has a sort of torches burning, we can attach some dynamic corona (dancing randomly in fire) developing a more like real-fire feeling.
* If we are interested to make a different game especially during week-end times (when is more freedom for a couple of people) game can load some extra-creatures at any end of week which are randomly scaled and having random projectiles - Me and myself I cannot predict what kind of stuff will take place, engine will decide all occurrences increasing or decreasing game difficulty.
* If a door is not opening properly we can simply fix it and if it's really annoying, we can even get rid of it leaving the spot free of bugs.
* Various Event Type messages are available if map is poor toward information about objectives.
* If map has a battle filed where nothing happens we can have some new things added more or less random.
* If map has some stupid holes where only player is dying and is getting annoyed, we can add some solid beacons occluding them and returning map into a MH thing rather than a trash.
* If map has poorly decorated walls very shining we can deploy some graffiti type things and also we can adjust lightning level to a decent stage.

Probably list is longer, and I do intend to work at more stuff which can be recovered, all patching Level goes until geometry borks, those cannot be fixed without rebuilding map and... this is EditorEngine's task not GameEngine's task.

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Re: Customized tweaking

Postby Nelsona » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:21 pm

Another problem which do seems more mitigated in 2018. Hurting big monsters like Titans, GiantGasBags with shock-balls and way better with rockets/grenades. So far because of their size and Engine deals with hard-coded HurtRadius they were totally immune like to shock-balls. Now I can have them being hurt which for me is very logic. You shoot weapon, enemy touched should take damage rather than wasting ammo around trying to kill them without success.
About solving this for people interested we can debate in private the solution.


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