Computer Question

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Re: Computer Question

Post by David » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:18 pm

I have a question. I know the common answer but not sure if it is an updated answer or not?

I use Avast Free Anti-Virus for some time now. Recently I started getting notifications from some store websites that they observed some strange behavior so they locked my accounts and I had to create a new passwords to access them. (note: I did not click on any links in an email, I went straight to the known website to change my passwords)

Due to this I grew concerned and decided to try Webroot Secure Anywhere 2016 - 5 devices for 1 year (Fry's Electronics had it on sell for $19.99 instead of the $70 normal cost). It is a security suite in addition to an AV program.

Right now I have both (Avast and Webroot) running and I am not having any conflicts/issues. I know the common notion is to only have 1 AV program installed, but is it bad to have a second one as a backup.

What are your thoughts?

P.S. Webroot did not detect any malware/virus/keylogger or anything that could explain the recent issues with some store websites.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by a nameless entity » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:29 pm

I think you're correct to suspect that the problem may be at your end.

I've had more than one of the free antivirus programs installed on a computer in the past. The trick is to have only one of them working in the background at all times. The other you just use in an on-call basis, as an extra form of security. If you ever experience any difficulties while running the secondary anti virus program, you just temporarily shut down the background operations of your main a.v. program beforehand.

If you don't have Malware Bytes Anti Malware installed on your PC, I would suggest that you get the free version and run it. As I understand it, it has a way of hiding what it is from malware, so that its installation likely will not be blocked. And if it does get blocked, there are alternate ways you can get it to install and run you can discover at their website.

I occasionally go and get Microsoft's Safety Scanner and run a scan with it too. They publish a new version every 10 days.
I wonder sometimes if this little program is just another version of Microsoft's Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool. But in a doubtful situation such as this, I'd be glad for the latest version as an extra way to scan for problems.

By the way, I also use Spyware Blaster. It runs quietly in the background whenever you open your internet browser. It's shareware, and updates once or twice a month. So I check for updates every two weeks. It's an old program now, and I've heard that it's mostly for blocking malware aimed at Java, but more is better I guess.
Last edited by a nameless entity on Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by David » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:43 pm

a nameless entity wrote:If you don't have Malware Bytes Anti Malware installed on your PC, I would suggest that you get the free version and run it.
I do have Malwarebytes Anti Malware (free) and I also use SUPERAntiSpyware Free edition as well.

I run weekly scans. I first do CCleaner, then I use SUPERAntiSpyware , then Malwarebytes, then the AV program (originally Avast Free) and then I use Auslogics DiskDefrag to wrap it all up. (note: I have Windows 7, and to me Auslogics was faster/better than what windows had).
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Re: Computer Question

Post by a nameless entity » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:14 pm

Ah once again you've caught me editing my post, David. :lol:
The only other thing I can think of to mention would be the tiny chance that if you did have both AV programs running in the background at the same time that that might somehow be the culprit.

CCleaner was the name of the other program I was trying to recall.
Well it looks like you've covered all your bases alright, so I'll shut up now and let the resident experts do the talking. :oops:

I hope you get this sorted soon.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by KellyD » Sun May 01, 2016 2:43 am

Guys I love you all and I post with that in mind. I mean no disrespect and you are welcome to return critique of my thoughts. Anyway, here goes....

Almost everyone gets computer virus issues wrong. It's not at all about how protected you are, it's entirely about where you go when you surf. If you are having issues then you need to adjust how you do things.

For starters stop looking at porn and/or torrenting with your main computer. Don't tell me you don't because you are lying and it only complicates things. Of course you do, and you need to stop. Using a 'Private Tab' is not going to protect you in these places. Neither will NoScript or AdBlocker or those type of plugins. If you don't have a second computer then you need to run a virtual machine to safely surf here.

Porn sites (and the rest of the scum places) don't function well unless you allow some scripts to work and that's where they get you. How do you think they pay for all these HD streaming videos that are all 'free'?

I'd be happy to send you a screenshot: I run no antivirus on my computer. Once a week(ish) I'll scan with MalWarebytes and maybe every three months it will find something. It's all about prevention and not at all about curing.

Anyhow, that's my two pennies.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by David » Sun May 01, 2016 4:41 pm

You forgot a more current reason for junk on one's computer, social media (Facebook). Granted I do not use social media like my wife, but I do use it sparingly.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by KellyD » Sun May 01, 2016 10:36 pm

If Facebook were infecting you they would quickly destroy themselves. I'd propose that places like Facebook are some of the safest places you can visit. They are constantly monitored for client safety because that's their entire business model. However if you click random links in your feed, well that's another story and it goes right back to my previous post: bad surfing practices.

Edit: by the way I wasn't judging anyone that looks at porn, etc. All I'm saying is do it right. Like everything concerning sexuality it's up to you to protect yourself. Use a cheap, junker laptop to do it or set up a virtual desktop. PM me and I'll help you if you don't know how. It's super simple now to use and it will provide a completely fireproof separation of your main computer in case you get hit with anything. You just simply close it and open a new one. The malware can't get out of the cage.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by Dr.Flay » Mon May 02, 2016 4:40 am

Noticing strange behaviour needs more context to be useful.
Strange behaviour from your IP, and strange behaviour from your account would be 2 different problems.

Strange behaviour from your account could be the worst problem, as it could mean that your details are in the wild.
Strange behaviour from your IP could be a virus or a browser extension sending more requests than expected.
Occasionally I get asked by google to prove I am not a robot while I do SEO work, because I have a bunch of extensions all asking google for lots of data.

To run multiple resident AV you must tell them about each other.
eg. exclude them from scanning the folder or the running tasks and scanner of the other.
Preferably have only 1 set as real-time scanning.


I have to use a laptop at the radio station with Avast, and |go and make a coffee while it logs in.
I have asked the station manager if we can change, because using a slow laptop during a live show can be a pain.
It is good, though never in the top 5, but it is almost always in the top 5 free AV (there is a reason I know).

OK. Lets look at this Webroot thingy. As I don't see them in the top ranks I'll have to learn about them.
Don't let the name fool you, all good AV look for rootkits.
http://www.webroot.com/us/en/home/products/compare
I am not convinced by the value of the extras, or how they constitute a suite worth paying an extra $40 (not that you did).

The 2 things you get with the $20 extra "Security Plus" package are reasonable maybe, but it must mean that their phone app is expensive (so it better be damned good), and the protection for accounts and passwords is possibly this http://live.webrootanywhere.com/content ... Protection
If it works well then it is good, if not, then pointless (obviously).

For the $40 more "Security Complete" package, you get 25 GB online storage and can clear your internet tracks.
I am sure you can get online storage at a better price (if you have not filled your google drive, one drive or drop-box or other free service, why do you need it?),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... g_services
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... p_services
and again clearing the traces of your net use can be done with free tools.
Vivaldi and Avira browsers both have a quick and easy way to kill all user-data, without extensions.
Avira even give you a real free VPN so you can be totally private if you want.

Hmmm lets see how they fair in the test sites
https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/ho ... r/webroot/
http://chart.av-comparatives.org/awards ... p?venID=18
https://www.virusbulletin.com/testing/r ... re/webroot
Looks like a patchy and poor history
They commissioned this test against, Norton, Mcafee and Sophos (3 easy to be better than)
https://www.mrg-effitas.com/recent-proj ... ned-tests/
I see good reviews in PC Mag, but as they always highly rate Norton and Mcafee and other AV that advertise.
I don't trust the impartiality of the reviews.

The claim is that it no longer gets tested because its unknown malware detection is "strange" with human backup.
It either works it is does not. How it does it should not matter.
Like most good AV it sandboxes unknown files, but then humans look at the results if they cannot be automatically cleared.
As far as I know, this is how these AV sandboxes work, or you have a file in limbo.
Until I see trustworthy comparisons, I think you are lucky to have got it cheap.

Many of the features compare to what you get with Avira and their mobile apps for free.
Personally I like the long-term stability of Avira and Bitdefender being the top 2 free AV for so long.
AV that shoots up and down the charts should be avoided (Mcafee, Norton) as much as those that sit at the bottom (Microsoft).

Personally, I say stick with 1 full AV suite you trust and have a couple of standalones for backup scanning.
MalwareBytes is the common first choice for a standalone, but there are others worth collecting.
They don't run in the background so theoretically you can install as many as you want.
Avira have their own (I only just noticed !)
http://install.avira-update.com/package ... ner_en.exe
Lately I have been using HerdProtect for comparison to 68 AV engines. It is slow as hell because it uploads any unrecognised files, and first time there was plenty on this PC. After that fine.
https://www.herdprotect.com/engines.aspx
Use it like VirusTotal and any "threats" you see that the big-boys say are OK, you can be confident the others are false detections.

https://vivaldi.net/en-US/userblogs/ent ... anti-virus

As for infections via Facebook and other well managed sites, that is always possible.
As long as you see 1 advert or financially promoted post, you are at risk of "Malvertising".
Facebook, BBC, Google, Yahoo, AOL, Forbes, NY Times, Readers Digest and more, have all served malware via adverts and paid posts.
https://threatpost.com/massive-malverti ... es/116806/
http://blog.checkpoint.com/2016/04/08/m ... dangerous/

Even if you don't see an advert you may have loaded a jscript from a bad site, and now be compromised.

Set your browser to load/run plugins on-demand, and use the extra shield of a good AV extension (you can even use the one from Avira without having the AV).
Use NoScript or similar.
Use a privacy extension such as Ghostery, Disconnect.me, UBlock Origin or Privacy Badger (can be used together).
Use a HOSTS file filled with the bad stuff you prefer to block.
Avira Scout browser comes pre-equipped for privacy, and includes HTTPS Everywhere and Privacy Badger
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Re: Computer Question

Post by David » Mon May 02, 2016 4:28 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:Noticing strange behaviour needs more context to be useful.
Strange behaviour from your IP, and strange behaviour from your account would be 2 different problems.
All I know is that I had two different store websites that claimed recently that they noticed strange behavior on my accounts so they locked it. For me to access my store accounts, I would need to create a new password when I go to their website. I checked all of my accounts and I have no unauthorized transactions.

Concerning my computer, it shows no signs of a virus or malware. In all the scans I did, it comes up clean.

Thank you Kelly and Dr. Flay for your help.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by a nameless entity » Mon May 02, 2016 11:33 pm

KellyD wrote:Guys I love you all and I post with that in mind. I mean no disrespect and you are welcome to return critique of my thoughts.

It's not at all about how protected you are, it's entirely about where you go when you surf.

For starters stop looking at porn and/or torrenting with your main computer. Don't tell me you don't because you are lying and it only complicates things. Of course you do,
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey! I only torrented once and only after I was assured by another member of this forum that the file was safe. (His Dad is an IT tech.) ;)

And I have ended up at porn sites after dead websites I used to visit were hijacked, or a link had gone bad in the same way, etc.
Once, a few years ago google search sent me to a gay men's website. I was not thrilled to discover that something that had gotten one of those idiots over at Fox news in a total meltdown rant turned out to be an activity certain gay men engage in. :roll: :lol: NO, I'd never heard of the practice, and I just had to check out something that got what's-his-name so totally out of joint that he apparently looked like he was about to have a stroke. :lol: :twisted:

Needless to say, after each such occurance, there was a lot of scanning done with everything I had in my AV arsenal at the time.

****
Which leads to my question:

The "root kit" option in Malware Bytes Free has never worked on my PC.

Does HitmanPro Free do a better job of scanning for rootkits on XP?
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Re: Computer Question

Post by David » Tue May 03, 2016 4:48 pm

I just wanted to state that I was really looking into getting Bitdefender Internet Security 2016 or Kasperksy Internet Security but I read recent reviews of both and customers of both were talking about how they were automatically enrolled in auto renewal and it was a pain in the rear to get out of the auto renewals.

I was leaning towards Bitdefender though, just because I had Kaspersky in the past. Kaspersky is a solid AV program in my opinion, but it is a resource hog as well.

But... I have not seen anything Webroot has done that has indicated that it is any better than the free Avast that I have been using for a couple years.

But concerning Kelly's valid statements, I have downloaded music torrents in the past. I scan them before opening them with Malwarebytes Anti Malware (free), SUPERAntiSpyware Free edition and Avast. I know and understand that things can still get into my computer downloading torrents/files even when scanning with security software.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by Dr.Flay » Tue May 03, 2016 8:29 pm

Quite possibly there have been no Rootkits to remove.
The deepest scans can only be achieved with a fully installed AV. Standalones are limited.
eg. Scanning with Kaspersky LiveCD may find and remove malware, but the real installed Kaspersky will find more.

I have looked into Webroot a bit more, and found more detailed info on how it works (shame the Webroot site is not so helpful).
It has some useful extras that should be enabled if disabled.
It has a useful roll-back feature that helps with ransome-ware attacks.
The methods used for dealing with unknown software add a delay the others don't have, but due to rolling-back it "should" undo any damage.

I can't see much reason to use SuperAntiSpyware since all of the main Antivirus packages include spyware as a malware type, and there is little evidence that it is much good.
http://uk.pcmag.com/superantispyware-pr ... ssional-60

HitmanPro is not tested often by the AV comparison sites, but it has always had good results. I cannot find any bad reviews. Some even rate it worth using as a main AV.
I have used it alongside MalwareBytes for many years, and would put them as fairly equal, but as I have never used either to remove a rootkit, I can give an opinion.
HitManPro uses the virus definitions of another 5 AV vendors, so should be able to see more threats, if it cannot remove them.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by Hermskii » Wed May 04, 2016 11:21 pm

Kelly's process is best. The end. Use a virtual machine when you go to questionable places. Have antivirus on your computer for email and a basic level of protection from the regular sites you go to like your bank. Even common used sites get attacked sometimes and can be compromised.
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Re: Computer Question

Post by a nameless entity » Sat May 07, 2016 10:34 am

Hermskii wrote:Kelly's process is best. The end. Use a virtual machine when you go to questionable places. Have antivirus on your computer for email and a basic level of protection from the regular sites you go to like your bank. Even common used sites get attacked sometimes and can be compromised.
Off Topic:
It is exactly because even the big banks get hacked that I will not do my banking online. I refuse to go to "paperless" billing from the gas, electric, and phone companies for the same reasons. I pay my bills at the bank and get their stamp and teller's intial on my hard copy. I also enjoy the walk downtown and back. I let the bank worry about the hackers. I have also been thanked by a teller for helping to keep her job alive. And that is the best reason of all for not going electronic. :)

Back on Topic:
I have tried various stand alone anti malware programs over the years on this 13.5 year old Dell 8200 Windows XP computer. Last night I gave that stand alone Avira PC Cleaner a try. It of course tells you how wonderful their AV solution is. Too bad they don't support XP any more. (And Avast! started causing bsod's so I had to dump it. Bummer.)

I downloaded Avira's downloader onto one of my usb sticks. I was hoping to get a choice of where it would d/l and install itself, but I did not. Interestingly, it goes into a temp file folder in drive C. It also puts a program icon and an uninstall icon onto your desktop automatically.

I wasn't ready to run the program immediately last night after I started it up and had a look at it's very plain jane interface. I happened to run my cache cleaner program and it cleared 180.5 Mb off of my pc. And flushed Avira PC Cleaner away. And that is how I found out it installs itself to a temp folder.
So if you clear your cache and temp folders you will need to do a reinstall. If you don't then the desktop icon will work and Avira will run a very quick definition update. It's not a big deal if you do clear it completely away as it takes less than 5 minutes to go and get the program and have it ready to run. Just save the downloader to a usb stick or a separate folder someplace.

I did a full scan after I redownloaded the program and it found two files it didn't like called TR/Trash.gen
They were in the folder of a very small stand alone scanner called Xen that I downloaded over 10 years ago.
It was tested and recommended by the resident techies at the chat forum I used to go to in those days.

Xen is a very small DOS like program. It would check your PC for hidden hacks that would turn it into a zombie, and had some handy file cleaning/clearing functions as well. I stopped using it after a couple of years or so.

But as I rediscovered this morning, it cannot be uninstalled. Which really p!sses me off. It is not in the list of programs under Add/Remove programs. And dumping all files associated with it into the trash bin caused windows to get all out of joint and ask me to insert my Windows XP SP3 cd into the drive. Well I don't have such a cd because this PC dates back to pre SP1 days. So I restored all from the trash bin but Windows was still unhappy.
So I did a system restore to the point last night that Avira made after it ran. And I'm still here.

I had always thought of Xen was a benign little program, even though I can't get rid of it. Last night was the first time that any malware program was upset with it.
Of course now I have changed my opinion of Xen because it has its claws into valuable system files and will be a b!tch to get rid of. :?

So has anyone ever heard of this old DOS like program called Xen?
And more important: What do you know about this little stand alone called Avira PC Cleaner?

p.s. I was correct. Avira Free no longer supports XP as of April of last year. The definition updates stopped as of April 8, 2016.

http://www.avira.com/en/support-product-lifecycle

p.p.s. Let me reiterate that Avira PC Cleaner works fine on XP. A second scan this afternoon found no malware. :)
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Re: Computer Question

Post by KellyD » Sun May 08, 2016 8:07 am

You should make the jump to windows 10. I've installed it on everything in my house from a newer gaming rig to an absolutely ancient laptop that I use as a server. It scales to whatever architecture you are putting it onto.

To keep using a deprecated OS will be increasingly more akin to forcing a square peg into a round hole. Less support as time goes on only makes you more vulnerable. And seriously if your rig is 13 then it's time to get a newer model. Big box stores sell them super cheap.

I get the 'use it till it's broken' ideal but what is your time worth? I don't want to spend time looking for ancient drivers, making old programs keep working, etc. I need to sit down, get my stuff done, then do something else. I take the best path towards that and in the computer realm that means upgrading your hardware every few years.
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