Redeemer mod bots

[gopostal]

MEAT and I have been disussing the bots and how to improve them for times when the server isn't busy. I think there is a lot of room to make them better but I'd like some input from you guys over what specifically would make them better.

Here's a for instance: A bot could be programmed to acutally notice an incoming redeemer (:shock:) and use his redeemer to defend from it if space permitted. Otherwise I could code them to attempt to trans away from the deemer.

The bots will never be as good as any human player (even me) but I think they can surely be made better. A lot will depend on the maps being made well as I'm sure you notice bot behavior change on different maps but also some minor modding of how the bots deal with things could make them quite a bit more than walking targets.

[MEAT]

I hate seeing bots attack bots...that could be a start.
But basically my thoughts were on building a better/intelligent bot.
Bots now of days are an easy target...some servers you can walk up to.
So how about some type of build in range or radar for bots.
Something along the lines of a bot detecting real players at a greater distance.

[gopostal]

I just got done working on code so that a bot will translocate away from an incoming redeemer. I'd like for them to choose between that and using alt redeemer to defend, but I'm afraid they will become too tough. As it is I can get one to translocate so fast across an open area it's scary. I could also code them to use the trans as a weapon but making them too bright will make the servers just too hard.

Next step is to make them "see" incoming redeemers. Not sure how I'm going to hack that though. One thing though MEAT: This will have to be done as a mod. I'm making some pretty massive AI changes to the bots, stripping out decision making they don't need for redeemer mods (like weapon choice). I don't see any choice but to write a replacement class for the standard bots. I'll build a config file for it so you can select how many bots to add and stuff.

[Hermskii]

Hehehe. This will be fun. MEAT is already thinking he should not have said anything. Recall, MEAT isn't as PC savvy as some of us. Take it down a few grades and he'll play with you at recess and keep interested in this. Otherwise he'll stop responding and go play on his server.

What you need to say to MEAT is that if you do this, he will have to install the mod on his server and it will change plenty when it comes to his bots. You need to explain the risks to him as well.

I'll just sit back and watch. So far I like the ideas. Can you also make a super bot that kills with nothing but a translocator and hates Klownz? You know a reverse Mutant concept could be freaking cool. One bot that is super like XAN and is Godlike and can't be killed who also has a really bad attitude. People join the game and get owned. The last one still alive wins or make it possible to kill Xan thus earning life points or something like that.

Did I just invent the next great UT concept or what?

[gopostal]

As a lark I made a custom animation for the bot. He does the running man. I might add it to the taunt package and use it if the bot is the game winner.

I think I'll make a proof-of-concept map and use the bots in it to let people feel them out. Honestly Herm my gut reaction for this is that the bots could easily be unbeatable. They can decide in an instant where to shoot the trans to get out of the way using this bit of code:

Code: Select all

TransTargetLocation = RedeemerLocation + ((Normal(RedeemerLocation - Redeemer.Instigator.Location)) * DistanceToTrans);

so actually hitting them would be very hard in the open. Combine that with some deemer defense and it may take the fun out. I think I'll make it so they can see the redeemer if it is in their sight path and either run away or translocate (say 60-40 chances). What do you think?

[Hermskii]

Did you ever play UT2K4 Mutant? If not read about it. I'm telling this idea I just came up with is priceless. Yes, bots can be made to be near perfect but just one in the game all of the time hunting everyone using radar if need be. It could be called the "You better run for your life sucka" server. LOL.

Imagine you and 7 other players trying like hell just to live against this one hell-of-a-bot. To me the question is how to make the bot stay in the game no matter how many people connect. It would be a DM server with standard weapons so while the bot is tearing the a** out of one guy, the others could be shooting him.

Reminds me of the MH-GiantGasbag map. In it, there is a super monster that runs so fast you can't see him. He is called "The "Expletive Deleted"" by me and others who recall playing this map all of the time. He'd kill you about 20 times before you finally lucked out and killed him if he stood still long enough for you to shoot.

Make your proof of concept map. Find a server willing to run it for you and test your theories. There has to be somebody willing to let you use their server for testing. You aren't touching my sweet virgin server. Everyone complains about the bots so why not make them super resistant to deemers but no matter what, someday, in some game, somebody will beat someone else by killing a bot and the whole rant starts all over about it not being fair becasue somebody got a point killing a helpless bot while running and gunning.

[MEAT]

I just got done working on code so that a bot will translocate away from an incoming redeemer. I'd like for them to choose between that and using alt redeemer to defend, but I'm afraid they will become too tough. As it is I can get one to translocate so fast across an open area it's scary.
Next step is to make them "see" incoming redeemers.

I like the idea of a bot actually being part of the game and not just a helpless sap.
I see this way to often on other (newbie based) redeemer servers...

[Hermskii]

Reminder that MEAT was beaten by a bot the other day and it was a girl bot too.

[*POTS*]

Reminder that MEAT was beaten by a bot the other day and it was a girl bot too.

It's nice.

[BIOMECH]

8 ppl living in mortal fear of 1 AI..I'd like to spectate that

[gopostal]

I'm telling you in no uncertain terms I could mod a bot that would be unbeatable. The bot AI instantly knows where the farthest spot to drop a trans is and can compute distance to target like a radar. With a little work I could code it to know to use a redeemer for defense of incoming and you would never hit one again. Couple that with the fact you can't sneak up on them (they hear footsteps irregardless of the ambient sounds) and you can see why they are greatly toned down. If deemer engine were added to footsteps recognition and code added to trans away from the sound, you'd be chasing ghosts.

You know how they will shoot you in the face instantly when you come around a corner, especially on KK's server? That's just the tip of the AI iceberg.

[*POTS*]

8 ppl living in mortal fear of 1 AI..I'd like to spectate that

No spectator slots available on all {HOH} redeemer servers...

[Hermskii]

OK Scotty, last chance. Ever play Mutant on UT2K4? Now imagine you and a team of players show up on a map and in that map there is a totally awesome super bot that only has weapons that require more than one shot to kill you. Your job is to not only have to kill the super bot for life or points but stay alive more than the others. The bot can win everygame but whoever lives the longest wins. Now put that whole scenerio in a regular Deck16][ type map but with regular weapons.

I think the problem to make a mod like this is bot pathing. No single super bot will be smart enough to path for itself but why have paths when it simply has to attack anything that lives and is closest to it and or better yet, doing the most damage to it.

So you and me show up at the same time and we get owned by the super bot. Final score:

SuperBot: 30
Me: 3
You: 1

The bot wins automatically because it is near perfect but the bot doesn't count. I win actually because either I killed the bot 3 times or maybe that number shows howmany lives I still have left after starting with 30. I will have died 2 less times than you did and so I would win. Are you following me on this or do you want me to call you.......AGAIN!

[gopostal]

It would be easier to make it a 2 team game with the "super bot" on one side and the players on the other.

Honestly bot pathing can be worked around with proper AI clues. You can insert a random roaming code and the bot will keep moving until it makes contact. I also worked on code to gently move invasion monsters closer to players on large maps without them seeing it, so maybe that could work here too.

The trick to this will be deciding how to make the bot act. Too powerful or quick and the players will get frustrated. Too slow is boring.

BTW, you call anytime

[MEAT]

Killer bots...can you set it up so that it works on a few selected maps?
No one is unbeatable...well, besides me...