UT Mods/Mutators
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Yep, man, Once I contacted a server. I was interested to play a bit. I saw 2 Skaarj Barserkers. Once entered in their range they become angry, were like 2 animals head to head, I watched this more seconds, almost 1 minute, they did nothing, once received a redeemer I could blast them too easy, but I fight with them normally, this kind of behavior is really obsolete. 2 good monsters with high skills in combat camping face to face means nothing for player, yea nothing, if you remove SYF and leave them to do some damage each other, sometimes you have the change to see them dying at once, yea, happened, at least if one of them is survivor is prety easy to be killed since is already wounded. This is a mess what can I say ?
So, our game controller is wrong. If we throw them in a team, if we give them a TeamTag will be 100 times better. Based on code posted, in MH we meet only that ELSE situation, means if is not a TeamTag or a team, they have a default attitude against other creature, yes other creature not Bot or Bots (the seconds bot class).
In other ideea, this is a bit late now. There are more maps, the problem is that if all monsters there are friends, is nasty for poor player. Once instigated, the general ScriptedPawn code tell to that pawn to pick a destination for reach to enemy. They can follow some good paths according to subclass size for hunt a player, they won't be interested in self fighting since they are a team, and all of them will act against a friend's enemy doing the same attack, will develop a wave of angry monsters killing too easy the player.
Questions:
1) Is good to make them friends and to remove SYF code ?
2) Or we need a bit of safety and we leave them to act incomplete like until now forcing engine against his own A.I. handlers ?
3) Personal question to myself: Nelsona, can you alter the controller to test them in friendly position ? My answer: I'm not sure if I can do it well.
So, our game controller is wrong. If we throw them in a team, if we give them a TeamTag will be 100 times better. Based on code posted, in MH we meet only that ELSE situation, means if is not a TeamTag or a team, they have a default attitude against other creature, yes other creature not Bot or Bots (the seconds bot class).
In other ideea, this is a bit late now. There are more maps, the problem is that if all monsters there are friends, is nasty for poor player. Once instigated, the general ScriptedPawn code tell to that pawn to pick a destination for reach to enemy. They can follow some good paths according to subclass size for hunt a player, they won't be interested in self fighting since they are a team, and all of them will act against a friend's enemy doing the same attack, will develop a wave of angry monsters killing too easy the player.
Questions:
1) Is good to make them friends and to remove SYF code ?
2) Or we need a bit of safety and we leave them to act incomplete like until now forcing engine against his own A.I. handlers ?
3) Personal question to myself: Nelsona, can you alter the controller to test them in friendly position ? My answer: I'm not sure if I can do it well.
- Hook
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Oh man - they kiss? ![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
=Hook= of Hook's UT Place - Hopelessly Addicted to UT99!
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CROSSBONES Missile Madness {CMM} (GT Top 50)
PRO-Redeemer | PRO-SNIPER-Redeemer | SEEKER-Redeemer
Birth Place of ALL Seeker/Scoped Deemers!
IP: NEW IP to come!
CROSSBONES Monster Hunt {CMH} (Special Edition MH by mars007)
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- EvilGrins
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Only in public. When they're alone...they do 'other' things.Hook wrote:Oh man - they kiss?
Considering most Skaarj are neither male nor female, just use your imagination.
Probably something like this:
http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/44353195/3189901
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Unfortunately was true, I mean I removed that position head to head. Now the things are a bit nasty. Was (and I still have) a map MH-Doomed-Hell-HTD+ if I remember well the title. There, in first area are some SkaarjBerserkers. Well things changed worse, they are not so interested in self fighting, they are very triggered against me. Now they can even open doors, suddenly an idiotic behavior was transformed in a constant attack.
With the right code is possible to make themenough friendly and engine will decide their combat behavior against a player. I shooted a monster, another monster closer was pissed off too, they both attacked me. That Hate was transmitted fast to others and everybody started a mad hunt. I think is a bit harder now. Maybe I made a wrong move with this. Just for safe, I have a modified SYF code decreased in power.
Other one: MH-BoomBoomBridgeV2, the same nasty war. Suddenly I saw some flies, brutes, mercenaries, lava-sliths, coming right to the PlayerStarts in attempt to hunt me. I had the bad ideea to shot through those 2 windows in bridge area and they noticed me starting hunting.
I don't know what to do now, to keep this in server or to change back previous version.
With the right code is possible to make themenough friendly and engine will decide their combat behavior against a player. I shooted a monster, another monster closer was pissed off too, they both attacked me. That Hate was transmitted fast to others and everybody started a mad hunt. I think is a bit harder now. Maybe I made a wrong move with this. Just for safe, I have a modified SYF code decreased in power.
Other one: MH-BoomBoomBridgeV2, the same nasty war. Suddenly I saw some flies, brutes, mercenaries, lava-sliths, coming right to the PlayerStarts in attempt to hunt me. I had the bad ideea to shot through those 2 windows in bridge area and they noticed me starting hunting.
I don't know what to do now, to keep this in server or to change back previous version.
- Hermskii
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- Sir Mandrake
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
I think he meant to decide if he should keep it on his server to go back to the original version of that map. I have the map hes talking about on mine and its very hard if not impossible to finish with 1 or 2 people without spending 4 hours at it. 6 or more makes it an enjoyable map.
- Hermskii
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
I'm starting to think that you Sir Mandrake and POTS are the same person. That is a huge compliment both ways. Except for my hate of people using aliases that is OK with me if you are. LOL.
Thanks for your explanation.
Thanks for your explanation.
~Peace~
Hermskii
Hermskii
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Means the version of the new recompiled mod is in server. Map is the same. Just monsters are acting different, yes, If you didn't understood well, I can explain again.
I described something about MonsterHunt controller used in all common mods tweaked with small differences depending on server. I'm talking about what I had in my mind and what I did finally. I uploaded the mod in server and is worse, I mean monsters are acting Insane against players. A map is just a map, Berserkers from map are acting according to version of MH used. I repeat, the same map has a different behavior inducted by the mod used. In first area you are not safe at all in my server, Berserkers can open the door, they are only 7, 8 even 9 at once ambushing me exactly at player start, is not fair, they deliver spawnkills
, and they are so nice (if I would be their mother I can be proud of them), kidding aside is a bit nasty. I wanted to see what is happening if they are friends, answer: Bad things, is heavy to survive.
This is the result of bad ideea to use the first part of the ScriptedPawn code not the last ELSE condition used so many years. Yea, sometimes is hard to understand what are doing the monsters. A monster instigated by player will be full of angry, near this monster if exist another class, they will attempt to fight each other, using SYF code you can block them even they can be a bit blocked if you just look at them. This is different if there are 2 friendly classes, both of them will try to reach at you. This thing is different because game controller is not doing what need to do.
I changed this and I have better result. There is a single problem, but I think this is not possible to be fixed so easy. If you attack them with a huge power hurting them, they will attempt to retreat looking for a HomeBase. I tried to supress this fear, or I think I have another dumb ideea to spawn a HomeBase at PlayerStarts randomly. But I think I already see enough according to monster's style of combat, they can act sometimes really great, depending on map and MOD of course.
I think I'll try to play 3 times this night that map because I like somehow the new A.I. behavior.
I described something about MonsterHunt controller used in all common mods tweaked with small differences depending on server. I'm talking about what I had in my mind and what I did finally. I uploaded the mod in server and is worse, I mean monsters are acting Insane against players. A map is just a map, Berserkers from map are acting according to version of MH used. I repeat, the same map has a different behavior inducted by the mod used. In first area you are not safe at all in my server, Berserkers can open the door, they are only 7, 8 even 9 at once ambushing me exactly at player start, is not fair, they deliver spawnkills
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
This is the result of bad ideea to use the first part of the ScriptedPawn code not the last ELSE condition used so many years. Yea, sometimes is hard to understand what are doing the monsters. A monster instigated by player will be full of angry, near this monster if exist another class, they will attempt to fight each other, using SYF code you can block them even they can be a bit blocked if you just look at them. This is different if there are 2 friendly classes, both of them will try to reach at you. This thing is different because game controller is not doing what need to do.
I changed this and I have better result. There is a single problem, but I think this is not possible to be fixed so easy. If you attack them with a huge power hurting them, they will attempt to retreat looking for a HomeBase. I tried to supress this fear, or I think I have another dumb ideea to spawn a HomeBase at PlayerStarts randomly. But I think I already see enough according to monster's style of combat, they can act sometimes really great, depending on map and MOD of course.
I think I'll try to play 3 times this night that map because I like somehow the new A.I. behavior.
- Sir Mandrake
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Nelsona.. Ive noticed a few times that I will stand quite a ways away from a monster or group of monsters so that they wont know Im there. if I point my weapon at them... They come running at me. I think a lot of early aggravation of the monsters as a player enters a room is because the weapon is pointing forward at them. that monster and any behind it will come running at you.. What monster configuration sets this and should a mapper use such aggressive aggro settings for a monster?
- Hermskii
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
This is the stuff that is interesting to me. I wish I knew how to do the coding part of UT or any other part for that manner. LOL. I know GOPO is reading this now and grinding his teeth because he has already dug through all of this and came up with the best solution he could think of. He's pulling out his hair wanting to jump in and correct someone about something that has been said here I'm sure. He chomping at the bit to save us from ourselves and tell us what all he has already done in the way of finding the right answer and wants to say that there is no better answer than the answer he came up with for this issue.
Give GOPO credit where it is due though. The man fixed more stuff in UT and especially MH than just about everyone else combined. See that! Credit where credit is due. Yeah, I miss being able to through issues at GOPO and get the answer back in a couple of hours for stuff others worked on for years and gave up on it. He is a PHENOM when it comes to UT.
But...just like when Luke left Jedi-Knight training early to save his friends:
[as Luke leaves before completing his training]
Yoda: Told you I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse.
Obi-Wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No. There is another.
I think there is another and another after that too as far as people who are as good as GOPO is and who are willing to assist when they can. That is all for now. Peace out people!
Give GOPO credit where it is due though. The man fixed more stuff in UT and especially MH than just about everyone else combined. See that! Credit where credit is due. Yeah, I miss being able to through issues at GOPO and get the answer back in a couple of hours for stuff others worked on for years and gave up on it. He is a PHENOM when it comes to UT.
But...just like when Luke left Jedi-Knight training early to save his friends:
[as Luke leaves before completing his training]
Yoda: Told you I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse.
Obi-Wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No. There is another.
I think there is another and another after that too as far as people who are as good as GOPO is and who are willing to assist when they can. That is all for now. Peace out people!
~Peace~
Hermskii
Hermskii
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Sir. Mandrake I know what you saw. This is not really happens in my work. I released a bunch of resources studying some default UT rules for Net Play.
I helped other guy with MonsterHuntGold to tune it a bit. I tried to accelerate it a little, that man was somehow glad but I wasn't.
More SP stuff harmfull for Netplay was replaced by Gopo in attempting to stabilize the mod. As result, a bunch of replacements can decrease performance of A.I.
MH-(AMLP)AnewHope-MM-.unr is a map played more times by me. 6 Tentacles in Skaarj Area before unlocking minigun can be a bit deaf and blind. If player is walking nice and is not looking at them, tentacles are sleeping. Well, in my server try to pass there, even behind a door monsters are angry, they can see you, except guys turned with back at player.
Indeed, this is what I want from A.I., not creatures only waiting to be blasted.
Until, now server crashed caused by PlayerCanSeeMe check not external causes.
I helped other guy with MonsterHuntGold to tune it a bit. I tried to accelerate it a little, that man was somehow glad but I wasn't.
More SP stuff harmfull for Netplay was replaced by Gopo in attempting to stabilize the mod. As result, a bunch of replacements can decrease performance of A.I.
MH-(AMLP)AnewHope-MM-.unr is a map played more times by me. 6 Tentacles in Skaarj Area before unlocking minigun can be a bit deaf and blind. If player is walking nice and is not looking at them, tentacles are sleeping. Well, in my server try to pass there, even behind a door monsters are angry, they can see you, except guys turned with back at player.
Indeed, this is what I want from A.I., not creatures only waiting to be blasted.
Until, now server crashed caused by PlayerCanSeeMe check not external causes.
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
I split topic a bit to avoid losing logging.
Let's say, I'm not care about those accesed nones returned by pickup logs since the server is runing without a crash for 2 months. I played a map with 1043 monsters I think you know it. I wanted to see A.I. handlers vs monster number. Is different but not so anoying. They can fight enough well.
Onestly I think you need to change the replacements in other way. CheckReplacement function is using a lot of resources and is checking a bunch of actors each tick ruining A.I.. This is what I'm thinking, maybe I'm wrong but I saw the difference in my work.
According to weaponry. I think is a small crap there
UIweapon - return true;
Where is UIweapon ? I know about "UIweapons" not "UIweapon". Engine is not trained for grammar rules (like me), that "s" is just a mess like RazorJack vs RajorJack writed by Shrimp. Anyway, I'm lacked at something. UIWeapon(s) class is a TournamentWeapon subclass anyway. Why we need to claim this twice ? I removed these craps since I'm using a relaxed function to control replacements. Maybe I'm wrong but you are free to try different ways. In fact I don't see a logic, or why is necessary to claim true Tournament weaponry. Weapons are vaporized or what ? I didn't see this until now. And I keep my ideea until will see a real problem according to a missed call to weaponry.
Let's say, I'm not care about those accesed nones returned by pickup logs since the server is runing without a crash for 2 months. I played a map with 1043 monsters I think you know it. I wanted to see A.I. handlers vs monster number. Is different but not so anoying. They can fight enough well.
Onestly I think you need to change the replacements in other way. CheckReplacement function is using a lot of resources and is checking a bunch of actors each tick ruining A.I.. This is what I'm thinking, maybe I'm wrong but I saw the difference in my work.
According to weaponry. I think is a small crap there
UIweapon - return true;
Where is UIweapon ? I know about "UIweapons" not "UIweapon". Engine is not trained for grammar rules (like me), that "s" is just a mess like RazorJack vs RajorJack writed by Shrimp. Anyway, I'm lacked at something. UIWeapon(s) class is a TournamentWeapon subclass anyway. Why we need to claim this twice ? I removed these craps since I'm using a relaxed function to control replacements. Maybe I'm wrong but you are free to try different ways. In fact I don't see a logic, or why is necessary to claim true Tournament weaponry. Weapons are vaporized or what ? I didn't see this until now. And I keep my ideea until will see a real problem according to a missed call to weaponry.
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Sometimes a mapper can tune a bit a monster. Is not so usefull especially if that man don't really know what is doing.
Default Bot Sight is 5000. A little monster will see 2000 and boosted by MH can reach at 3000. My question: Why so wick ? Nah, I control this, everybody need to see at least 5000 or else will sleep being useless. In other order, a higher range can stress server. A monster can act better with map pathed not based only on sight. Shot a monster in a map pathed and will see it trying to reach at you. Shoot it in a map unpathed and will see a retard. This is proved. What can I say ? My Work Station is an OLD computer. I cannot really capture a movie or 10 movies to show you some tests.
Default Bot Sight is 5000. A little monster will see 2000 and boosted by MH can reach at 3000. My question: Why so wick ? Nah, I control this, everybody need to see at least 5000 or else will sleep being useless. In other order, a higher range can stress server. A monster can act better with map pathed not based only on sight. Shot a monster in a map pathed and will see it trying to reach at you. Shoot it in a map unpathed and will see a retard. This is proved. What can I say ? My Work Station is an OLD computer. I cannot really capture a movie or 10 movies to show you some tests.
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
And I bump this again because I think I saw what is about somehow.
There is a map or 2 versions of that map called I think something like AsmodeusAions, yea if we talk about a new technology in how to make an useless monster take a look at it. You really need some skills to ruin A.I. like this. If you meet monsters in that map, not spawned later after game started, if you don't shoot they totally ignore the player. If you try to shoot them (Not only aiming) or if you go to touching them they finally will realize that you are there and will fight back.
Awsome, I didn't wasted time to much to see their settings, I just noticed a bad work in this case, you can pass very easy some areas based on this non-reaction of monsters. Of course there are a few paths in that map, not so usefull since they are broken. Usually I note any map like this in my UT notebook to avoid forgetting about it, preventing to add such a crap in public server.
There is a map or 2 versions of that map called I think something like AsmodeusAions, yea if we talk about a new technology in how to make an useless monster take a look at it. You really need some skills to ruin A.I. like this. If you meet monsters in that map, not spawned later after game started, if you don't shoot they totally ignore the player. If you try to shoot them (Not only aiming) or if you go to touching them they finally will realize that you are there and will fight back.
Awsome, I didn't wasted time to much to see their settings, I just noticed a bad work in this case, you can pass very easy some areas based on this non-reaction of monsters. Of course there are a few paths in that map, not so usefull since they are broken. Usually I note any map like this in my UT notebook to avoid forgetting about it, preventing to add such a crap in public server.
- Nelsona
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Re: UT Mods/Mutators
Hm, I post again here because I could do something for MH, wasn't easy but I found a way to improve default MH without redo other MH.
Our problems in OLD MH starting with MonsterBase called by default MonsterHunt game. Those functions added for a few so called fixes, in fact are ruining more things.
A small example: Even using default MH as game-type I can bring back RazorJack in maps.
How is possible to do this, I mean to fight with MonsterBase ? More things are simple but we are sometimes blind. In MonsterHunt controller is an example of code about How to Slap a Mutator Loaded to be unavailable. Great ! This example can be remoded and called in whatever Base mutator, right in PreBeginPlay. Usually in this manner we can attack more craps because the game isn't initialized yet. In that moment we destroy any MonsterBase and we can declare as BaseMutator our mutator, not the old crap.
Using a slow timed technology we can bring back the ruined class MonsterHunt.OLRazorJack not MonsterHunt.OLRajorJack,
, and we can develop a small school for Skaarj to be friends with some decaled and Network Weapons,
.
Of course troubles cannot be stopped so easy but some adjustments can be done better than fighting with other high powered BaseMutator.
Default ScoreKill functions and Killed functions from MonsterHunt I'm not sure if they can be resolved so easy can still return more accesed nones.
_____
Our problems in OLD MH starting with MonsterBase called by default MonsterHunt game. Those functions added for a few so called fixes, in fact are ruining more things.
A small example: Even using default MH as game-type I can bring back RazorJack in maps.
How is possible to do this, I mean to fight with MonsterBase ? More things are simple but we are sometimes blind. In MonsterHunt controller is an example of code about How to Slap a Mutator Loaded to be unavailable. Great ! This example can be remoded and called in whatever Base mutator, right in PreBeginPlay. Usually in this manner we can attack more craps because the game isn't initialized yet. In that moment we destroy any MonsterBase and we can declare as BaseMutator our mutator, not the old crap.
Using a slow timed technology we can bring back the ruined class MonsterHunt.OLRazorJack not MonsterHunt.OLRajorJack,
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Of course troubles cannot be stopped so easy but some adjustments can be done better than fighting with other high powered BaseMutator.
Default ScoreKill functions and Killed functions from MonsterHunt I'm not sure if they can be resolved so easy can still return more accesed nones.
_____