Ping Opinions

[5i1ent/3ob]

In your own opinions, to what degree does ping affect UT game play and what do you base that opinion on?
Myself, I've been on both sides of the wall. I've played with a 300 ping and I've played with a 75 ping and as far as I'm concerned the connection upgrade has made the most noticed difference of any upgrades I've made including processor and RAM.
So, let us know what you think. Thanks in advance.

[gopostal]

Depends almost totally on the gametype. a 300 ping can be tolerable in MH, but >100 in DM, especially insta is a death sentence. You'll just not be competitive.

[Hook]

I had DialUp for years and I found ways of getting around the high pings.
Sometimes high pings can work to your advantage and also IF you know How to "WORK" those high pings!
You can completely confound and confuse a low pinged player sometimes!
I wrote an article or a How To on it several years ago, and it may still be on my site.???

[MEAT]

I found ways of getting around the high pings.
Sometimes high pings can work to your advantage and also IF you know How to "WORK" those high pings!
You can completely confound and confuse a low pinged player sometimes!
I wrote an article or a How To on it several years ago, and it may still be on my site.???

Please post it here so those with higher pings will get off my azz.

[5i1ent/3ob]

With all due respect, the question was does ping/latency have any bearing on game play and if so why? The question was not are there ways around a high ping. Straight question, does a lower ping experience faster exchanges to and from the server than does a higher ping and if so/not so, why?

[gopostal]

No offense but thats kind of an obvious answer. Of course the exchange is faster. If two people are fast talkers they will communicate much more information in "X" time than slow talkers. The rub becomes keeping everyone synced up correctly with all the different net speeds.

[5i1ent/3ob]

I'm not offended at all. It seems obvious to me as well. In fact, it seems obvious to most players and most if not all UT related websites, especially those pertaining to tweaking.
I only asked because after a match that I won, one of the other players with a rather high ping made reference to the ping issue, to which I agreed and further stated that the other advantage is knowing the maps. The second place player who was under an alias at the time and will remain nameless, went on a diatribe as to what an idiot I was for believing that latency was a factor at all. Perhaps Hermskii will review the log as it was a most interesting exchange? I just split which is what I do when I run into attitude...it's just easier I think. Anyway, I think I have a decent grip on what latency is, the UT game engine and it's 'ping compensator'. I will go to my grave believing that ping does matter if for no other reason than just because switching from dial-up to cable made such a huge difference for me. 'People' want to talk about the small fraction of time difference latency boils down to. I disagree with that personally, but even if that's the case I'd like to say that a fraction of time makes a difference when you're dodging a bullet. Speed draw competitions, which I've participated in are judged by differences of degrees of seconds! Ping matters lol.

[gopostal]

UT suffers from some ugly netcode issues. The various ping compensators have tried to even the field but UT was really made with dial-up in mind. Once most everyone bypassed the 56K that's when the problems started. Servers can lag horribly with just one bad pinger, or really one good pinger. It's best when everyone is fairly close be it good or bad.

[Hermskii]

Yes, ping matters. 56K players have an advantage when playing Redeemer Mod servers only in that they have a better chance of surviving splash damage from a Deemer than high ping players do. Why? Becasue the message their PC gets to tell them they are being damaged comes less fast and thus less often than a high speed player in the same range of splash damage. That is my opinion and not actually a fact unless somebody jumps in and tells you I'm right.

[gopostal]

You are right, but for the wrong reason. Damage is handled server side. The client reflects what the server says about health, not the other way around. If it were client side it would be easy to hack a god cheat.

What happens is a high ping player forces the server to wait for them and at times the damage assesment tick is finished AFTER the client update tick. In effect the player eludes the damage because he wasn't available to receive it at that moment. Since the damage wasn't actually awarded, the server discards it for the 56K'er and it begins a new tick. Does that make sense? It's kinda simplistic but in essence that's what ping compensation does: It holds those discarded client changes and adds them to the next tick update.

[Hermskii]

That was how I meant to say it. I said backwards though. Yes, the server tries to tell a 56ker they should be dead but since the message is missed by the 56ker since they are so slow the server says screw it since it can't wait and they then are only half dead.

[gopostal]

Much like me on the 5am start workdays

[5i1ent/3ob]

Thank you both for your explanations. I guess that means then that everyone's quest for low pings is without merit and that the player who suggested that there's no advantage to a lower ping was correct. I owe someone an apology then.

[Hermskii]

No. Not at all. I said that

56K players have an advantage when playing Redeemer Mod servers only in that they have a better chance of surviving splash damage

but that doesn't mean it out weighs a low ping by any means. The advantages a low ping give far outweigh a high ping like that of a 56Ker.

We would all rather have a near zero PING and I have often played with a zero ping before and at most about 30. I don't think ping has too much to do with it as people here seem to think. In UT if you have a ping under 150 you should be able to play pretty well. Under 100 and you should be able to play great. Under 50 you should have no excuses at all.

Does MEAT, Klownz and I have an advantage? Yes. Is it so great that a better player can't beat us? No.

One time I logged in at CG with a ping less than 10. I then logged in as a God since I was the administrator and could. Though I could not die, I still lost badly to Death Inc repeatedly because he was able to kill 30 people faster than I could though I never had to respawn or lose my position. He was just that much better than me during that set of games on those maps. I never forgot that.

I wish all of the talk about certain people only being good because they have low pings and only play on their own servers will go away. I suggest to any of you that I think MEAT and Klownz could likely show up anywhere and give anyone a great run their money provided the game was based on the Redeemer Mod. Yes, I think they are that good!

[gopostal]

Once upon a time I was a Clanbase game moderator
http://clanbase.ggl.com/news.php -interesting site if you ever look

I had the opportunity to referee some clan cup matches and some of the players I saw were simply awesome. There are a cadre of maybe 3 or 4 percent of players who are truely elite level players and play at a level most of us don't get a chance to see. You don't see this much on pub servers because they would be branded as cheaters and honestly it would be boring for them. Most of the greats only play private servers or cup match play.

So yes, I would have to agree with Herm most greatly. There are good players, but then there are players whose calibre is such that no reasonable difference will ever let you win against them, no matter how stacked it is.