a monster of a problem

[EvilGrins]

A term I'm not familiar with: What is 'monster soup'?

[Hook]

One thing Gopo DID say that was correct...
"version 436 is version 436"
It is something else that is causing your "problem".
Some mod or setting is my guess also.

[EvilGrins]

Unreal Antholgy ut99 version 436 is a whole other animal.

Sparing you the full details, I installed it all over and played it unaltered without any special mutators added whatsoever.

The monsters still ignored the bots!

I don't know what it is but there's something fundamentally different about it than the original ut99. Regrettably, I don't think any of you are gonna quite grasp this unless you go and track down a copy and try it out yourself.

I found mine at Fry's.

[Hook]

There must be some setting, somewhere, that is different between the two.
There are external differences and installation I'll hand you that though.

Well, keep digging at it here and there and something is bound to surface.

[EvilGrins]

Hopoe so. If only so the guy that's trying to help me on ut99 I can show the problem is the game and not me.

[Nelsona]

Small question: Why you need to use a version which doesn't work since you say about you have one which works ? If something is corrupting my UT, I reinstall a good new one immediatelly, I'm not wasting time to seek issues. Also when I want to play DM and I'm using default monsters, of course only bots are hunting monsters with less interest, monsters totally ignore Bots. For me, this "issue" is logic, I saw the codes, at least for other classes I need to check them to see what are they doing by default. MH by default has the controller designed to put up a fight between A.I. sides Bots vs ScriptedPawns (monsters), other game-types may have bad results since default Botpack setting for any default game has bNoMonsters=True.
Why do you think this NoMonsters is set to true ? Just for fun ? Something not really working by default. If you expect result to be 2, but you didn't programmed 1 + 1, result won't ever apears.

I can explain a few or more things about MH vs CTF, AS and DM, but I'm not sure if you will understand well.

[EvilGrins]

Small question: Why you need to use a version which doesn't work since you say about you have one which works?

Originally it was because Hermskii suggested I install another ut99 into another directory to see if the one I had for years, bogged down with all of the stuff I've tweaked it with over the apst decade, might be the reason I couldn't host games. I don't still have the original ut99 installation disc...or if I do it's lost under a mountain of my stuff somewhere.

It wasn't the reason, as it turns out, but I kept this other version because I thought that when I could eventually host games it might be beneficial to play them off a version of ut99 that was less cluttered.

As to your other point, in normal DM games, at least on my system, the monsters don't ignore the bots. I started adding monsters to the game almost immediately, back in 1999, cuz i thought they made better gameplay. This was before MonsterHunt existed and most of the monster mutators were around. I started with maps that had monsters embedded into them and branched out from there.

And yeah, I'm talking about the original monsters. The issue exists with added monsters too on this UA ut99 version but I figured start with the basics as the problem seems to exist throughout that version.

[EvilGrins]

Been largely testing the issue on this one map, though i originally spotted the problem in DM-Morbias][ with MonsterSpawn.

[EvilGrins]

If something is corrupting my UT, I reinstall a good new one immediatelly, I'm not wasting time to seek issues.

As stated above, I already tried that.

After reinstalling, it turns out that the Unreal Anthology ut99 normally has the monsters ignoring the bots. Why, I dunno.

[EvilGrins]

Viva la difference!

Still puzzling over this ut99 / Unreal Anthology ut99 difference. Couldn't sleep so decided to go thru the script of the ScriptedPanws. They're pretty much identical, as one might expect, except for this one part:

ut99:
-----
function bool SetEnemy( Pawn NewEnemy )
{
local bool result;
local eAttitude newAttitude, oldAttitude;
local bool noOldEnemy;
local float newStrength;

if ( !bCanWalk && !bCanFly && !NewEnemy.FootRegion.Zone.bWaterZone )
return false;
if ( (NewEnemy == Self) || (NewEnemy == None) || (NewEnemy.Health <= 0) )
return false;
if ( !NewEnemy.bIsPlayer && (ScriptedPawn(NewEnemy) == None) )
return false;

Unreal Anthology ut99:
----------------------
function bool SetEnemy( Pawn NewEnemy )
{
local bool result;
local eAttitude newAttitude, oldAttitude;
local bool noOldEnemy;
local float newStrength;

if ( !bCanWalk && !bCanFly && !NewEnemy.FootRegion.Zone.bWaterZone )
return false;
if ( (NewEnemy == Self) || (NewEnemy == None) || (NewEnemy.Health <= 0) )
return false;
if ( (PlayerPawn(NewEnemy) == None) && (ScriptedPawn(NewEnemy) == None) )
return false;

Granted, I have no idea what this means but clearly there's some difference between these two ut99s.

I'm barely a ¼ of the way thru so far.

[Nelsona]

Yup, finally, is a good point to check their code but the problem is not here. Yea, you read well, not here, at least the 3rd condition is the same thing but different writed.

..!NewEnemy.bIsPlayer.... - this means New enemy not be player you see "!" sign which means Negative condition;
PlayerPawn(NewEnemy) == None - This means Without New enemy playerpawn (bIsPlayer=True here)

I can say that you make a big confusion. Was good ideea to check ScriptedPawn code, can be other important difference indeed but is definitely in other place in code, classes spawned with MonsterSpawn are other kind of monsters (integrated) by default. Only if you edit INIs you can use default monsters. You need to see also TeamScriptedPawn. That class is look identical with original because they using the same mesh and skin, but TeamScriptedPawn is a TeamCannon abstract not a subclass of default ScriptedPawn.

Dig more, you will find the problem, I'm sure.
Indeed somewhere the code is altered by other code and can the monster can act different. In this section I think is about Skaarj classes to not be declared enemy but this can happen later. Is about non player and ScriptedPawn in the same time, there is "&&" which means "AND".

[Nelsona]

Splitted_____

If we talk about this code, this is a conditition to declare enemy but I preffer to see attitude code. Keep in mind UnrealShare.ScriptedPawn is not MonsterSpawn.

You described sequences from ScriptedPawn code but you often talk about MonsterSpawn, don't mess with this confusion. There are subclasses of ScriptedPawn as I can see (even they are encrypted ) but codes can be tweaked to make creature to react at other pawns presence, Bot is just other pawn.

[EvilGrins]

1) MonsterSpawn is only relevant in that it's something I use during LMS games. The overall problem is not it, it's something else. If I can fix the big problem I expect MS to fall in line.

2) Over at ut99 they sourced the problem to the unrealshare.u and, going for broke, I copied that file from my original ut99 into the Unreal Anthology version. Now the monsters are working like they're supposed to again...

...which is nice but I'd still like to know what specific thing was preventing them from attacking the bots.

[Nelsona]

Hard indeed to explain but I give an example:

Sometimes an assumed code can work different even if you want to call the same thing.

What is about ?
Working at a certain MH version I called different forms of players TournamentPlayer, PlayerPawn, a Pawn with bIsPlayer property, but things works different if we call Especially TournamentPlayer. For any pawn with bIsPlayer variable set to true, things can work or can return errors depending on your call. Sometimes a small detail in coding can be hard, in other case can be easy but the noob coder (like me) is like a blind man, and heavily can see a problem where it is, very late coming an inspirated dumb ideea which make things to work better. You see, even Bot has bIsPlayer, also SkaarjTrooper classes have bIsplayer (temporary, at least this is their purpose, until are armed), also US humans - we are bIsPlayer of course, but this bIsPlayer is not enough to deal with such a pawn and engine will mess the action.

[Nelsona]

I'm glad to see your interest for their code, you saw small differences, seems to be the same purpose but only a masterfull coder with a lot of knowledge about engine can explain if works different or not.