a monster of a problem

[EvilGrins]

As mentioned previously, I have ut99 on my system in 2 separate directories: 1 installed from the original ut99 disc set and the other from the Unreal Anthology disc set. The reason for this was to check something but since then I've decided since the original is the one I've literally had since 1999, I'd hang onto it for stuff I collected over the years and use the more recent installation for whenever I start hosting games.

There's some subtle differences between them...and one of them is seriously pissing me off!

Outside of Monster Hunt, I've got some maps that have monsters on them. For some reason those maps played in ut99 from UA, the monsters just stand around and do nothing. Even if shot, they don't fight back. However, the exact same map played on my original setup and the monsters will kick the ass of anything that comes in view of them...or at least try to.

I've skimmed all the pertinent obvious stuff but I'm lost.

I might not've noticed except I use MonsterSpawn for LMS games, so when things get slow in the match (damned campers) mosnters pop up and shake things up a bit. That got me curious and how I noticed that other maps that just had monsters designed into them were also not doing anything. MonsterHunt still works fine but nowhere outside of there.

Any ideas what's causing this? How can I fix it??

[Nelsona]

Outside of Monster Hunt, I've got some maps that have monsters on them. For some reason those maps played in ut99 from UA...

Open one of those maps with monsters on them in editor and check their AttitudeToPlayer. If those are maps outside of Monsterhunt then can be a small problem.

Default MonsterHunt is set their AttitudeToPlayer - HATE when the match is started, Shrimp not accepted in MH friendly monsters (game purpose was to hunt monsters not to hunt with monsters). Of course if you design your own monsters you can skip this if you spawn them later after starting game, or else they are turned automatically against you.

According to your described problem I don't have other explanation.

[EvilGrins]

That'd make sense except for the one point. Let me be clear.

I have ut99 in two separate directories. Why should the same map, played in two different copies of the same game, have monsters attack in one but not the other.

There's gotta be something different about the two games, it's not the maps.

[EvilGrins]

Try this, tried the maps and the MonsterSpawn mutator and learned something new. As opposed to ut99 where this has never been a problem, the UA ut99 doesn't recognize bots as players.

The monsters react to me but not the bots.

Any idea why that is and how I can fix it?

[Nelsona]

I answered very clear, outside of MonsterHunt monsters have nothing to do with bots in certain games. In MonsterHunt are trained a bit to fight with a bot (when they see one). I understand, You have 2 copies, one with MH installed and other not. And don't mess with maps, give me some names of maps where monsters acting good in one copy and not acting well in other. You still need to study these troubles to understand what I mean.

MonsterHunt mod has a function defined named FindSpecialAttractionFor(Bot aBot). Why do you think was written that ? Summon a monster in a normal CTF game with bots even with MonsterHunt installed and tell me if a Bot is interested about that monster or if the monster is interested about any Bot. In CTF They totaly ignore each other.

Also the registry and UT.ini has a game-type defined by default. If you double click on a map, the game started will be the game declared in ini. You can very easy to play an Assault map as DM match not Assault. A word to say on this is the game declared at LevelInfo. Why do you think the map is not important in this ? Of course it is. Maybe I cannot explain in a better english but you are free to check what I writed.

I saw a lot of assumed MH maps without MonsterHunt declared at LevelInfo. If you click directly on map, the game started is usually DM. A "smart" one complained in a forum about bots "my bots tried to kill me", of course if you are "so awsome" to play DM on a MH map be sure about bots will try to kill you since the game is not a MH ever. Also this is altered very bad if map in MH is ported from CTF and LevelInfo is pointing engine to load CTF game not MH.

So, pay attention at what kind of game you launch.

[EvilGrins]

I answered very clear, outside of MonsterHunt monsters have nothing to do with bots in certain games. In MonsterHunt are trained a bit to fight with a bot (when they see one). I understand, You have 2 copies, one with MH installed and other not.

Then you misunderstand. Both copies have MonsterHunt on them, only one of the copies has monsters that ignore bots. I wouldn't make a big deal about this if my original copy was reacting like this.

In the copy of ut99 I've literally had since 1999, the monsters go after the bots just as much as any living player in any gametype.

I may not've explained this factor as clearly as intended in the initial post.

[EvilGrins]

You have to keep in mind, I've been playing with monsters in games a lot longer than MonsterHunt has existed. MH started roundabout 2001 and I've been playing with monsters on maps since 1999. With the noted excpetion that in team games, originally, the red team ignored the monsters...

...the monsters have always gone after the bots.

My current problem is a reversal of that, with monsters ignoring all bots. I've got monsters just standing there when a bot walks right past them. The most that happens is that if they touch the bot starts shooting the monster and it just stands there until it dies.

This is happening in my newer copy of ut99, which I got from the Unreal Anthology package. Clearly there's something different about this newer version even though they're both ut99 v436.

Also, it's not just the monsters that come with the game. I've got monsters I've collected from various packages over the years and they're all ignoring the bots.

Is there one particular file that governs all monster behavior in-game, regardless of their source?

[Nelsona]

A monster "ScriptedPawn" may have aprox 3 Attitudes:

1) Attitude To Another Monster if they are on the same team even if they have a Leader;
2) AttitudeToPlayer - us Humans only;
3) Attitude To Another Monster if they are not on the same team.

Here is missing other chapter and unfortunatelly I didn't found something about this:

Attitude to Bot - not described, results, Monster by default is ignoring Bot.

[Nelsona]

Other file to trigger a battle between monsters and bots I tried once (I wanted to use monsters for a common game) but not really worked. Is hard to fight with engine's A.I. handlers even using an aggressive tick.

[EvilGrins]

There's gotta be one specific file that's different between the two copies that I can switch. Just need to find what it is.

I've got a CTF map: CTH-FacesKrall, where the krall are on each team and there's a few other monsters that're setup for teamplay. It plays fine on my original, haven't tried it yet on this newbie but if the monsters ignore the bots then that's not going to help.

On a random note, the Monster Madness mutator still work fine and those monsters still attack everybody. Although, that mutator allows for monsters to win games if they get the final score first so that may be a significant difference.

[EvilGrins]

Thought some visuals might help.

This map is DM-amonstethouse. It's got it's own monster generator in it, birthing numerous monsters throughout (it's pretty big) in response to how many players are currently on it. It's not a great map but it's interesting, plus the monsters, which is why I've kept it so long.

Played on ut99, all bots, the monsters attack the bots constantly:


Played on ut99, under Unreal Anthology, the monster completely ignore the bots:


Out of curiosity, I popped over to CTF-FacesKrall. It uses TeamMonsters.u and even in Unreal Anthology the monsters still attack the bots.


MonsterMadness monsters still attack bots in Unreal Anthology but the ones spawned by MonsterSpawn don't attack.

So, the key issue, all other things notwithstanding, is that there's something fundamentally different about Unreal Anthology ut99 than the original version.

For the record, they're both version 436.

[Hermskii]

I'm confused about your continued confusion. GOPO pretty much answered your question already on another forum.

Do this:

Make 2 brand new installs. One in each version of the UT game you have. Now run the test again on them both and YOU WILL FIND that the monster attack you in both of the installs you have. End of test and discussion right?

The versions of UT aren't so different as the current but ancient modded version you have on one install which is not all modded in the other install you currently have.

[Nelsona]

That's explain a lot.

Note 1) MonsterMadness and MonsterSpawn are not the same thing;
Note 2) A map generating monsters can generate other class than scriptedpawn;
Note 3) TeamMonster.u is other thing (subclass abstract of a TeamCannon).

Nothing works normally if you make a Monster soup. I used MonsterMadness, indeed thoose Monsters are a bit different don't let their face to fool you (they look like original but is a subclass of default ScriptedPawn), they are able to take shieldbeld, they can be on a team, if I saw correctly that class have walking dead bug fixed.

[EvilGrins]

That's explain a lot.

Note 1) MonsterMadness and MonsterSpawn are not the same thing;
Note 2) A map generating monsters can generate other class than scriptedpawn;
Note 3) TeamMonster.u is other thing (subclass abstract of a TeamCannon).

Nothing works normally if you make a Monster soup. I used MonsterMadness, indeed thoose Monsters are a bit different don't let their face to fool you (they look like original but is a subclass of default ScriptedPawn), they are able to take shieldbeld, they can be on a team, if I saw correctly that class have walking dead bug fixed.

1) Yes, that's kind of the point. They're entirely different. Still, even without any mutators involved, the monsters that're just in some of my DM maps are still ignoring the bots.

3) I offered TeamMonster.u as an example, like MonsterMadness, that there are a few exceptions to this issue under Unreal Anthology.

[EvilGrins]

I'm confused about your continued confusion. GOPO pretty much answered your question already on another forum.

He did and he didn't. Or he lost me, which is a moot point as he's given up on me now.

Unreal Anthology has a clever installer. No matter where you direct it, it detects another version of itself on the system and prevents a new install without eliminating the first one. Rather frustrating really.