Sportsmanship....a lost concept

[5i1ent/3ob]

Useful definition - Sportsmanship - Conduct and attitude considered as befitting participants in sports, especially fair play, courtesy, striving spirit, and grace in losing. This isn't some definition I dreamed up. It's the accepted norm in almost all sports from the farm leagues to the pros. yet, I see some of the worst sports I've ever seen when I play UT and I have to wonder why that is? We all know it's a game, but it's clear that some players take it on a personal level, as if losing was some sort of attack on who they are as a person. I've also noticed that the sportsmanship a UT playing individual displays seems to vary depending on certain things like how many are in the game and who they are. I've seen some players not type a word, much less a friendly 'gg' until they finally win and then out of the blue they type 'gg'. Does this mean that to this person it's only a good game when they win? Holy crap, that's messed up! That would mean they derive no enjoyment from playing the game itself, only from winning at it. To me that sort of like numbering all the puzzle pieces so that there's no challenge to putting it together. In other words what's the point? Does fishing suck unless you catch a fish? If so, I don't want to go fishing with you lol. Is there no fun to be had in a game of bowling unless you win? That's just crazy! There is room for disappointment in losing, but I think there are better ways to display that disappointment rather than conducting one's self in an unsportsmanlike manner. Is it because of embarrassment? Are people actually embarrassed if they lose? That would be even weirder to me. Again, this game has no reflection as to who we are as real people, so what's to be embarrassed about? Now, I can see if your name is something like, 'I'M THE BEST' or TheUnbeatableOne, etc, etc, why that particular player might experience some feeling of embarrassement from losing, but hey, if your ego is as big as the Grand Canyon you have a lot to lose...that's life. What does however reflect on the kind of person you are in real life is your attitude as a winner OR loser. Hey, losing at anything feels bad. That's why they call it losing lol....it's a loss. The funny thing is, there's only one way to feel good about losing and that's to do it with honor and good sportsmanship. These people that get all hacked off when they lose and mouth off or clam up aren't making themselves feel any better. Theoretically it would make them feel worse as they aren't meeting any resolution for the loss, it's just a loss, period. A loser whether it be a team or an individual will always benefit from doing so with a display of good sportsmanship. Not only will that person be happier from that action, but other players will admire, nay respect their sense of fair play and the notion that winning isn't everything can prevail. Because if winning IS everything, you may as well just download all the hacks you can find and cheat your way to victory...if you can call it victory. I hate to say it, but I think people have become self-absorbed and self-centered. They care what they feel like and at the same time have no consideration as to how they make others feel. I play pretty well. I should, I've been doing it for years. My reward for winning is silence from other players and servers that empty out as if I just opened a can of the Black Plague. I decided to sit a couple of matches out tonight and just watch the gameplay. Sure enough, the same people who wouldn't offer up a simple 'gg' when I won were suddenly in a better mood when the competition wasn't playing and could muster up the two little letters no problem. That makes me feel great right? I think it's lame crap. It takes guts to be a good sport and you either have the yaggas to be one or you don't. It doesn't go both ways. A good sport who's only a good sport when they are happy is a gutless good sport if you ask me! Yeah, the days of the old deemer are gone and the game is evolving, but I tell you one thing we had in the old days and that was a good time. Most everyone was friendly, helpful and played in the spirit of sportsmanship. Winners weren't taunters and losers didn't act like babies. I've heard a hundred excuses as to why some people don't say 'gg' after a match or even worse don't talk at all but nobody's fooling me and they can't fool themselves. They simply feel too bad about losing to bother allowing someone else to feel good about winning. That's the only thing that makes sense! It can't be because it's too much trouble because certainly one exerts themselves far more during game play than after a match. I heard one player state that it's stupid to say 'gg' after each match. Well, it's probably just as stupid to say 'excuse me' every time you burp or 'bless you' everytime someone sneezes. There are some things that are just common curtesy and we do them in order to let other people know we have tact, manners and that we care. One's who can't seem to display the most simple signs of good sportsmanship during UT game play.....well, I hate to imagine what they're like in real life. In a way I feel bad for them.

[gopostal]

I rarely ever put in gg after a game and I'm so fair I won't take all the pickups in single player mode. I think it's overused and cliche'. I will congratulate someone in-game for something, and I apologize for any unfortunate unfairness (like leaving POTS at the bottom of the lift in Herbreke ). It's what you do on the playfield that matters to me, not what happens after.

I don't think I know you but you seem to be a well-respected person. I would say to you though that if people on a server are acting differently when I'm there, I might take a look at myself too, along with everyone else.

[MEAT]

Here's a thread I started a couple years ago about the phrase "gg".
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=190&start=0

[Fuzz_Ball]

I often skip the gg part because I am naturally rude and inconsiderate.

Good Games, Guys.

[5i1ent/3ob]

Thank you, MEAT for sharing the old post. Damn good post and some of the replies offered explanations or at least excuses as to why the notion of sportsmanship goes over some folks heads. 'Blow-out'? In other words when one get's their arses kicked so severely that the winning score is triple theirs? If that's a blow out, then even more reason for a 'gg'! I get it now though. Some people simply have a hole in their psyche which makes it impossible for them to recognize the benefits of sportsmanship. Perhaps hormone therapy would be in order because what they really need is to grow a pair!

[MEAT]

I rarely ever put in gg after a game and I'm so fair I won't take all the pickups in single player mode. I think it's overused and cliche'. I will congratulate someone in-game for something, and I apologize for any unfortunate unfairness

I'm like ScottyD...I very seldom use the phrase "gg".
Basically because I just don't see or play in that many good games.
If anything I mostly throw out "Fun Stuff" after a game.
Or during a game I'll say "Good Job" when someone kills me intentionally.

[5i1ent/3ob]

I guess everyone has their own definition of what a good game is. For me it's pretty simple. If nobody's cheating and a friendly attitude prevails then it was a good game whether I win or lose. One at least has to admit that traditional sports from little league to pro ball pretty much sides with this point of view. If that were not the case we'd never see the after game handshake of congrats! Things like lag issues can make a game seem not so good to me, but because issues as such are outside the control of the players I still call it a good game. I suppose there should be some sort of concise definition as to what a good game is. Of course, that will never work because to some it's not a good game if there's spraying and to some it's not a good game if there's any spawn killing, camping, etc, etc. To me that's just another way of saying it's not a good game unless everyone plays the game the way 'you' want them to play the game. That's sort of like the kid who takes his basketball home because nobody wants to play using his personal rule set. People who get pissed at campers, sprayers and whatever else are only getting mad because someone has taken advantage of a possibility that exists within the game for EVERYONE to take advantage of if they want to or are able to. A word about spawn killing while we're on the subject. I couldn't tell you where the spawn points are in most of the maps I win. That's right, I don't have a clue and don't care where they are. I do however utilize a standard military tactic and lay down fire wherever I think the enemy might be. Most players I kill, I don't see at the time of the kill. When a recon unit intels a house that has insurgents hiding in it, they don't target the window they think the bad guys are standing behind. They just take out the whole damn house instead and make sure the job is done. In the same light you can be sure that a mortar company will direct fire into a suspicious valley long before they see that the enemy is in fact there. In the real world of military combat you don't wait until you visibly see your enemy unless you're attached to a sniper unit perhaps. Instead you shoot where 'he' might be until you're sure you wont see him and you do it with overwhelming firepower. Even in jungle warfare as in Viet Nam, when you spot the enemy you direct all the firepower you can to that general location and basically try to take out everything there is. In real war the opposing sides rarely even see each other one on one, but instead see evidence of each others presence and react accordingly. Infantry men don't shoot at other infantry men, they shoot at the areas they believe other infantry men are residing. Let's go way back to the days of archer batteries who flung thousands of arrows towards the enemy side of a battlefield. The arrows fell like deadly rain yet not a single one was specifically pointed at a particular enemy. They were all launched in a general direction in hopes to remove as many as possible from the playing field....indiscriminately. Battles are fought to win and you can be sure that both sides have always done whatever they could think of doing in order to win. Nobody came out of a trench in WWI to complain to the Germans, 'Hey you guys are just shooting everywhere without even aiming and you're killing my boys'. If it's an available tactic it will be used. In war everything from bombs to mortars have been dropped indiscriminately. That's why there are so many civilian loses. In Viet Nam the US had something called 'lazy dogs'. They were small solid projectile shaped chunks of metal lol. They were dropped from planes and helos by the tens of thousands. They weren't aimed, just dropped. They had no ordinance attached and were totally inert, but if you got hit by one it drilled a hole from head to toe. Most of them fell in open jungle, but some found targets. Nobody knows which did which, but we used them just the same. There's an old tactic called Final Fire, where if you're being overrun by the enemy, you set down every single piece of ordinance you have and launch it all at once. When the smoke clears there isn't even any vegetation left...nothing but dirt and bodies. Nobody aimed. One has to discount the most modern tech like FLIR and such, because we don't have FLIR in UT and we can't or at least shouldn't be able to see through walls or in pitch darkness. If we could I would play the game differently. Good ting we don't have land mines huh? Land mines don't care who steps on them. All you'd have to do is lace the playing field and sit back. In Quake 2 Chaos mod we had laser mines and robotic gun turrets! People who don't like matches where spraying is involved should only play at MEAT'S place. The maps are large and when I'm there I don't spray because it's pointless. Like most everyone else I guide instead. I don't consider any game tactic to be unfair as long as that same tactic is available to everyone else. Far more one-sided in my opinion is someone with a 25 ping. That's not something every other player has available to them and it's an advantage for sure. I'd be more than happy to debate the concept of packet loss as it relates to the UT game engine, but I think most would agree that the lower the ping the better the performance. Now, of course ya can't fault a guy who has a low ping, but it also can't be denied that it's an advantage not available to the other players. At least everybody can camp or spray or spawn kill if they care to. Me, I don't care what tactics people use, it's just a freaking game. I do however care how players conduct themselves because that's more than a game. It's a reflection of the person, the human. It lets us know where we stand amongst other players as friends. For those who are wondering, playing with no attitude is barely better than playing with a bad attitude. I mean those who play without speaking at all. How does one know he's amongst friends if they don't act like friends? Friends, ie 'friendly'? It's hopeless. People have lost the ability to recognize the important of camaraderie, fair play and sportsmanship within society and civilization. People just don't get it anymore. They don't see the need or the benefit.

[5i1ent/3ob]

...I might take a look at myself too, along with everyone else.

Ask anyone who plays me, 5i1ent/3ob is always encouraging to other players and a good sport. I have reacted when someone acts negatively toward me....I'm going to stick up for myself, but if I discover a map secret or win from a position that the other players at the time clearly aren't aware of I always say, 'can you see where I am?' and explain where I am and why I think it's a good spot. I always tell noobs the same thing....'I played for two months before I lived long enough to survive spawning in, so don't give up!'. I'm the king of 'Hang in there' because those are the words that made me stick out the learning process. I try my best to share whatever I think I know and 99 percent of the time I get zero response. How many times have you folks seen me type after I win something like, 'This game isn't about skill, it's about knowing the maps and connection mostly'. If that isn't taking the pat off my back and placing it in a neutral position I don't know what is lol. I don't care if I'm in a match with 10 other players who don't say a word...you will see a 'gg' from me every time. If I'm in a game with inexperienced players and one gets a shot on me I will every time type at least a 'N1' to let them know they aren't wasting their time. MEAT typed that to me on one of the rare occasions I nailed him with a shot and DUDE, it made me feel like a million bucks! That's the reason for good sportsmanship! No sir, they didn't 'gg' or speak to me while I was in competition because they couldn't beat me and it pissed them off maybe, but certainly not because I'm a bad sport. Have I ever been a jerk? Sure! If you try to take the enjoyment out of my win by accusing me of cheating or imply that I only won because I spray, you're certainly going to get a ''try 1-800-crybaby' from me. If you just lost 20 matches in a row and then finally win one, only to call everyone a wussie and bail, yup I'm going to think you're a punk for sure. Is it expected of me to respect those who don't offer respect in return? I hope not because that's not going to happen. Ask around though, unless I'm attacked first I'm all about peace and respect. I live my life by a simple rule...Do no harm. I'm not perfect, but I do try to live by this. I don't even taunt or use post game explosions because it's merely an aggravator and serves no purpose beyond that. If I'm to encourage beginners to stick it out I don't think rubbing their faces in my win is exactly the way to go about it. When I win I try to be gracious about it in hopes that people don't mind 'losing' to a humble winner. My hidden agenda there is the hope that they don't leave. I know that before, persons other than myself have played under my name. I've even joined a match with a 'twin', but the real 5i1ent/3ob is a nice guy
There are a lot of published psychological studies pertaining to personalities and causation. Being mean is a flaw not a strength, but I get the feeling some see it the other way around.

[Hermskii]

Yep, SRA had a good full time happy group thereand all you ever saw was LOL and Hahahaha and N1 and GG there all day and night long. I always GG even if I just got there and the map ended. I think it is simply a reflex at this point just as saying "God bless you" when someone sneezes. I do mean GG too even though I did not win and have a score of zero or -1 and just joined the game when it ended.

The rules on CG are nearly the same as they were on SRA. "Win by any means except cheating. GO!"

Type kills count, afk kills count, everything counts. The end. CG just has some cussing rules applaied to it as well as some naming rules. That's all. I haven't played so I don't see the bad now on the server and when I do play it isn't bad but people don't talk and I hate that. At SRA you spent more time typing than playing some nights.

I too give credit where it is due and often trained many players how to do stuff like find hidden rooms, make the tough jumps, kill with a translocator and other things like that. It was always hard to train because some noob would show up guns-a-blazing. Still there were quiet times where training was possible. I'm sure Silent Bob recalls some times when we would all call a cease fire and line up for pictures or lessons to get into secret rooms. Cease fires for pictures were always fun and short lived because yes a noob would show up and drop a bomb right in the misddle of 15 of us. Can you imagine killing 15 people in one shot? It used to happen often at SRA and CG in the beginning.

Oh and SilentBob, please don't hold back. Let it all out man. I know you can write even bigger posts than these. Let the force flow through you.

[5i1ent/3ob]

I know you can write even bigger posts than these. Let the force flow through you.

Hahahahaa! Sorry, Herm. I know I'm a wind bag

[*POTS*]

I know you can write even bigger posts than these. Let the force flow through you.

Hahahahaa! Sorry, Herm. I know I'm a wind bag

May you guys summarize a bit the essay? You know I'm lazy when I have to translate books... ops I meant posts... HellFire may understand me.

[Hermskii]

I actually don't mind long posts at all and am considered myself to be a wind bag. I just haven't seen any in a while is all. Very nice work and insight SilentBob. Thanks.

[Killer Klownz]

Y Cease fires for pictures were always fun

Get you and MEAT to show up on my server and we'll take a group photo of the people whose servers/forums you support . . . .

[Hermskii]

Sounds great! I'll make sure not to show up as a woman being my son keeps changing my player character to a woman when he plays. Do you think he might become.....well, how do I say it?................funny? Happy? Yeah-yeah the synonym for happy? Do you think? Well there are cross dressers that aren't ahem....happy right? Not that there is anything wrong with being happy

[*POTS*]

Yeah-yeah the synonym for happy?

1 - glad
2 - joyful
3 - cheery
4 - bright
5 - perky
6 - delighted
7 - pleased
8 - guy