http://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/ ... 46699.html
In essence, what Canada is saying is that they would rather have jobs and lives than pay fines for not cleaning the air up as much as a bunch of conservationist liberals wanted.
I already loved Canada but this put them another notch higher in my book and I hope the whole damn convention now falls like a house of cards. I suspect it will too!
Canada pulls out!
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Hermskii
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Canada pulls out!
~Peace~
Hermskii
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EvilGrins
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Re: Canada pulls out!
You'll excuse me if that doesn't make much sense to me. Lossely it can be translated to say "we're gonna pollute our environment as much as we want, infesting everyone's environment as it's all an interconnected system... but hey at least we'll improve our own economy".Hermskii wrote:http://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/ ... 46699.html
In essence, what Canada is saying is that they would rather have jobs and lives than pay fines for not cleaning the air up as much as a bunch of conservationist liberals wanted.
Sounds a bit selfish to me...
...but hey, Go Canada!
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a nameless entity
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Re: Canada pulls out!
The Republicans, er excuse me, "Conservatives" now have a majority in the House of Parliament, so they can do whatever they want. They have made no bones over the years that they don't like Kyoto. So it's no surprise what they are doing.
The only part of their argument that I agree with, and in a practical context only, is their stand that there is little real meaning in the Kyoto accord without the participation of the USA, India, and China.
However on the other hand, just because India and China won't cut back their emissions is no excuse for the rest of the world to give up on the idea, including doing all that you can on a personal level. Every little bit helps.
The real reason that the Republicans, er, "Conservatives" are pulling out of Kyoto however, is the tar sands mega project in Alberta. That huge green house gas engine is going to go ahead no matter what, and that's that. The air, water, and land all around that mega project is being poisoned at a terrific rate, and it is already killing off the native people and the wild life they depend on. But none of that matters. Having the oil, and building the pipeline down to Texas is all that is important to these guys.
The only part of their argument that I agree with, and in a practical context only, is their stand that there is little real meaning in the Kyoto accord without the participation of the USA, India, and China.
However on the other hand, just because India and China won't cut back their emissions is no excuse for the rest of the world to give up on the idea, including doing all that you can on a personal level. Every little bit helps.
The real reason that the Republicans, er, "Conservatives" are pulling out of Kyoto however, is the tar sands mega project in Alberta. That huge green house gas engine is going to go ahead no matter what, and that's that. The air, water, and land all around that mega project is being poisoned at a terrific rate, and it is already killing off the native people and the wild life they depend on. But none of that matters. Having the oil, and building the pipeline down to Texas is all that is important to these guys.
I'm a man........but I can change........if I have to........I guess
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EvilGrins
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Re: Canada pulls out!
Herm, what precisely is a conservationist liberal? A Republican Democrat?? I don't believe they hydridize their politicians that way.
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Hermskii
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Re: Canada pulls out!
It is a person who like a conservationist wants water to be clean and forest to remain uncut etc etc
plus
like a liberal wants the cost of making things that way fall harder on the ones that make water dirtier and the forest be cut down etc etc
plus
they feel they would rather have all natural clean water and full vibrant forest even if it means that all humanity must suffer in order to attain this goal etc etc
and
they feel so strongly about it that they are willing to go underwater or upside down about it in such a way that I'll use the following examples to demonstrate:
One oil rig blew up recently and caused what was considered one of the worst man made ecological disasters in history and thus our liberal President blocked all drilling going forward for the United States while he claims he is trying to make the U.S. energy independent! By the way, how did that oil spill effect you? All of the seafood from the gulf has been verified safe to eat. You don't see oil licks all over the beaches. Is your ocean over there dirtier now? Mine here looks just fine. Yet in the hundreds of thousands of people here are out of work waiting for the oil drill ban to lift. Over 100,000 human lives are suffering dearly because a bunch of folks (liberals) who don't even go to the beach think having all natural and clean beaches is worth making these people suffer.
Ask yourself this. Is your air so bad? Is your water so bad? Are all of the trees where you live cut down? What exactly is so bad in your environment that you feel hundreds of thousands of human beings should have to suffer for it? Would I like cleaner air? Yes? Cleaner water? Yes. More forests? Yes, but there has to balance to it and not at the cost of making people suffer. When you're 1 of 100 people who can make a decision that make 100,000 or even more than 10 times more people suffer even though the 100,000 - 1,000,000 people voted you in the 100 and clearly don't want to suffer, that is when you are a conservationist liberal!
If a plane crashed and 200 people died which is about 19 times more people than died on the oil rig you would think our liberal President would ban all flights going forward considering all of the deaths that could happen from crashes and the "pollution" caused by flights and everything on the ground that has to happen to make flights possible like people driving to work at airports and fuel getting delivered and planes being built etc.etc.
Hell, I'm shocked he has allowed us to still drive cars at this point.
plus
like a liberal wants the cost of making things that way fall harder on the ones that make water dirtier and the forest be cut down etc etc
plus
they feel they would rather have all natural clean water and full vibrant forest even if it means that all humanity must suffer in order to attain this goal etc etc
and
they feel so strongly about it that they are willing to go underwater or upside down about it in such a way that I'll use the following examples to demonstrate:
One oil rig blew up recently and caused what was considered one of the worst man made ecological disasters in history and thus our liberal President blocked all drilling going forward for the United States while he claims he is trying to make the U.S. energy independent! By the way, how did that oil spill effect you? All of the seafood from the gulf has been verified safe to eat. You don't see oil licks all over the beaches. Is your ocean over there dirtier now? Mine here looks just fine. Yet in the hundreds of thousands of people here are out of work waiting for the oil drill ban to lift. Over 100,000 human lives are suffering dearly because a bunch of folks (liberals) who don't even go to the beach think having all natural and clean beaches is worth making these people suffer.
Ask yourself this. Is your air so bad? Is your water so bad? Are all of the trees where you live cut down? What exactly is so bad in your environment that you feel hundreds of thousands of human beings should have to suffer for it? Would I like cleaner air? Yes? Cleaner water? Yes. More forests? Yes, but there has to balance to it and not at the cost of making people suffer. When you're 1 of 100 people who can make a decision that make 100,000 or even more than 10 times more people suffer even though the 100,000 - 1,000,000 people voted you in the 100 and clearly don't want to suffer, that is when you are a conservationist liberal!
If a plane crashed and 200 people died which is about 19 times more people than died on the oil rig you would think our liberal President would ban all flights going forward considering all of the deaths that could happen from crashes and the "pollution" caused by flights and everything on the ground that has to happen to make flights possible like people driving to work at airports and fuel getting delivered and planes being built etc.etc.
Hell, I'm shocked he has allowed us to still drive cars at this point.
~Peace~
Hermskii
Hermskii
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EvilGrins
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Re: Canada pulls out!
How the oil spill effected me? Who can say? How it effected the numerous people and animals in that region of the world, considerably. All over the news for ages, businesses ground to a halt thereabouts due to the oil contamination, given alotta those folks have sea based businesses.
Is the air so bad? Well, yeah. I've got asthma, which is generally considered a lot more common to recent generations than past generations, born before the industrial age, due to the pollutants in the air. Tends to have a degredatory effect on the development on young lungs and even older ones. Granted, air pollution was a lot worse back during the 1920's, when coal was a commonly used burning fuel across the nation...
...I went to India in 1986. You could feel the air as you breathed it due to the heavy coal content, like inhaling tiny rocks. Their air now is how our air was in the 20's.
Is our water so bad? There's places in the Midwest where you can put a match to a faucet and it creates burning water. Can't do that where I live but that doesn't mean it couldn't if things that happened there happened here.
Then there was that whole Eric Brokovich thing down in Hinkley. You know, how PG&E were putting pollutants into the local water table and people were getting various cancers from just drinking and bathing in the water.
Sure, again, that didn't happen where I live but it did happen where they live because people just... etc. etc. etc.
Hundred of thousand of millions are already suffering due to the current state of the environment worldwide, some areas more than others but that doesn't mean that just cuz you live in an area where it's a little less bad than some others that you should just pass it off as somebody else's problem. We all live on the same planet.
Obama wouldn't ban flying cuz as bad as a plane crashing is, it doesn't despoil the environment for hundreds of miles in every single direction. Not to mention, Obama was already against oil drilling prior to the BP oil spill. Besides, let us not forget that folks concerned about the environment measure the loss in life for more than just humans. So, I think you might wanna redo the math on that a smidge.
Y'know, being pro-energy development is more than just oil.
I agree there should be a balance. Problem is we're not even close to balancing. We haven't been in decades. Obama and folks of a similar mindset try to balance and get yelled at by other folks for going too far.
The not flying or driving thing is just ridiculous. Pfft.
Normally I don't put a big emphasis on such stuff... but you did ask.
Is the air so bad? Well, yeah. I've got asthma, which is generally considered a lot more common to recent generations than past generations, born before the industrial age, due to the pollutants in the air. Tends to have a degredatory effect on the development on young lungs and even older ones. Granted, air pollution was a lot worse back during the 1920's, when coal was a commonly used burning fuel across the nation...
...I went to India in 1986. You could feel the air as you breathed it due to the heavy coal content, like inhaling tiny rocks. Their air now is how our air was in the 20's.
Is our water so bad? There's places in the Midwest where you can put a match to a faucet and it creates burning water. Can't do that where I live but that doesn't mean it couldn't if things that happened there happened here.
Then there was that whole Eric Brokovich thing down in Hinkley. You know, how PG&E were putting pollutants into the local water table and people were getting various cancers from just drinking and bathing in the water.
Sure, again, that didn't happen where I live but it did happen where they live because people just... etc. etc. etc.
Hundred of thousand of millions are already suffering due to the current state of the environment worldwide, some areas more than others but that doesn't mean that just cuz you live in an area where it's a little less bad than some others that you should just pass it off as somebody else's problem. We all live on the same planet.
Obama wouldn't ban flying cuz as bad as a plane crashing is, it doesn't despoil the environment for hundreds of miles in every single direction. Not to mention, Obama was already against oil drilling prior to the BP oil spill. Besides, let us not forget that folks concerned about the environment measure the loss in life for more than just humans. So, I think you might wanna redo the math on that a smidge.
Y'know, being pro-energy development is more than just oil.
I agree there should be a balance. Problem is we're not even close to balancing. We haven't been in decades. Obama and folks of a similar mindset try to balance and get yelled at by other folks for going too far.
The not flying or driving thing is just ridiculous. Pfft.
Normally I don't put a big emphasis on such stuff... but you did ask.
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a nameless entity
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Re: Canada pulls out!
From 1988 to 1996 my parents would spend four months down in Port Charlotte, Florida. The first year I got to spend six weeks with them while I recovered from some surgery. Every year after that I spent two weeks of my holidays visiting. I used to love it down there for many reasons.
One interesting side effect of going to Florida was all the crud that I would cough up from my lungs, and get rid of from my sinuses during the first week. Then I would marvel at how easily the clean air would slide in and out of my lungs. Having that huge pool of clean air from the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico really made a difference! And once I got home (to the dirty air) again, I could feel myself getting all stuffed up again immediately, and could physically notice the extra effort required just to breathe.
Herm I think you have been spoiled by the fresh air breezes off of the gulf that you probably enjoy quite frequently as they whisk away the dirty air of the big city of Houston. Come up to the dirty air of the great lakes region some time, and stay for a month. Then see how nice it is to get home and be able to breathe again.
One interesting side effect of going to Florida was all the crud that I would cough up from my lungs, and get rid of from my sinuses during the first week. Then I would marvel at how easily the clean air would slide in and out of my lungs. Having that huge pool of clean air from the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico really made a difference! And once I got home (to the dirty air) again, I could feel myself getting all stuffed up again immediately, and could physically notice the extra effort required just to breathe.
Herm I think you have been spoiled by the fresh air breezes off of the gulf that you probably enjoy quite frequently as they whisk away the dirty air of the big city of Houston. Come up to the dirty air of the great lakes region some time, and stay for a month. Then see how nice it is to get home and be able to breathe again.
I'm a man........but I can change........if I have to........I guess
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Hermskii
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Re: Canada pulls out!
I understand that I seem all hard core. I have never suffered from any form of breathing ailment. Houston certainly does not have the cleanest of air and I understand people wanting it to be cleaner.
I would like everything to be as good and clean and pure as possible. But understand that I am aware you can't have the cake and eat it too. I have seen family owned farms here in Texas get shut down by conservationist because they found a rare minnow in a stream on the farm and then lawfully denied the family the ability to use the land any further because it may cause risk to a damn little fish that more than 99.9999% of the world has never heard of and nor do they care to save it. It is especially stupid conservationist crap like that which pisses me off to no end.
I watch our EPA put hundreds of businesses out of work every year trying to follow these conservationist guidelines for cleaner air. This puts millions of people out of work each year and then my working taxes get raised to pay for these folks to sit at home and suffer thus making me suffer more too. I have done what I have had to do my whole life to stay employed and pay taxes. I'm not rich. I have held a great many terrible jobs in my life but I have done what I had to do. Now it is getting harder and harder and our lovely President continues on his rampage against small business with this huge government bureaucracy. We can't keep paying for people's food for years on end on tax payer dollars.
No time to continue this. I will jump back in on this tonight.
I would like everything to be as good and clean and pure as possible. But understand that I am aware you can't have the cake and eat it too. I have seen family owned farms here in Texas get shut down by conservationist because they found a rare minnow in a stream on the farm and then lawfully denied the family the ability to use the land any further because it may cause risk to a damn little fish that more than 99.9999% of the world has never heard of and nor do they care to save it. It is especially stupid conservationist crap like that which pisses me off to no end.
I watch our EPA put hundreds of businesses out of work every year trying to follow these conservationist guidelines for cleaner air. This puts millions of people out of work each year and then my working taxes get raised to pay for these folks to sit at home and suffer thus making me suffer more too. I have done what I have had to do my whole life to stay employed and pay taxes. I'm not rich. I have held a great many terrible jobs in my life but I have done what I had to do. Now it is getting harder and harder and our lovely President continues on his rampage against small business with this huge government bureaucracy. We can't keep paying for people's food for years on end on tax payer dollars.
No time to continue this. I will jump back in on this tonight.
~Peace~
Hermskii
Hermskii
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Helen
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Re: Canada pulls out!
Infinite economy. Finite ecology.
Jobs for all now. Extinction later. Party on, Wayne.
Jobs for all now. Extinction later. Party on, Wayne.
one of the Scriveners. You can visit us at www.birdieman.com/forum
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Hermskii
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Re: Canada pulls out!
I do get what you are saying Helen. My thoughts are these when you turn some old age:
I hope that green energy takes but until it does and until it can be done where when more people gain than suffer to reach that goal, I hope that people get to succeed in their goals to enjoy a good life.
"I think" this planet this can take anything man throws at it and can recover as a whole within just a few years.
Liberals to me would rather rid this planet of all mankind so that they can say they saved the planet. Yeah...I just said that.
Again, I'm all for healthy everything but not at the cost of making people of the world suffer trying to attain it.
I still can't define what it is to be part of the 1% versus the other 99% but I side on the side of the 1% in that I'm sick and tired of supporting those people that don't and or won't do what they have to in order to support themselves. I have never taken a government handout. I hope I never will. I have paid for others my whole working life and I know that people that really try but fail need help. I'm not against that. I'd like to give "them" more. I'm against people gaming our system here in the USA and it is being done wayyyyy to much.
I want to keep what I have earned. I heard something good the other day about Republicans vs. Democrats. I look at it more like conservatism vs. liberalism and it is this:
I as a conservatist (who isn't rich or getting ahead by any standard) wishes that everyone and I mean "everybody" gets "everything" they deserved by working hard for it like I have. Liberals look around and decide that others have gotten too far ahead of them and want fiscally responsible conservatives to share their gains.
I hope that green energy takes but until it does and until it can be done where when more people gain than suffer to reach that goal, I hope that people get to succeed in their goals to enjoy a good life.
"I think" this planet this can take anything man throws at it and can recover as a whole within just a few years.
Liberals to me would rather rid this planet of all mankind so that they can say they saved the planet. Yeah...I just said that.
Again, I'm all for healthy everything but not at the cost of making people of the world suffer trying to attain it.
I still can't define what it is to be part of the 1% versus the other 99% but I side on the side of the 1% in that I'm sick and tired of supporting those people that don't and or won't do what they have to in order to support themselves. I have never taken a government handout. I hope I never will. I have paid for others my whole working life and I know that people that really try but fail need help. I'm not against that. I'd like to give "them" more. I'm against people gaming our system here in the USA and it is being done wayyyyy to much.
I want to keep what I have earned. I heard something good the other day about Republicans vs. Democrats. I look at it more like conservatism vs. liberalism and it is this:
I as a conservatist (who isn't rich or getting ahead by any standard) wishes that everyone and I mean "everybody" gets "everything" they deserved by working hard for it like I have. Liberals look around and decide that others have gotten too far ahead of them and want fiscally responsible conservatives to share their gains.
~Peace~
Hermskii
Hermskii
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EvilGrins
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Re: Canada pulls out!
Helen wrote:Infinite economy. Finite ecology.
Jobs for all now. Extinction later. Party on, Wayne.
Way to go, dude!